What differences were there between the film and digital versions of the film? I've only seen it digital and as far as I know, there was nothing extra as was indicated by RM and others.

I thought Sam Jackson's fight wasn't all that great looking. It looked slow and clumsy and Ian's faces were hilarious.

As far as Anakin wanting to take over the galaxy himself, I don't see what's not there. He only cares about himself and his power. He only liked Palpatine because he's been feeding him stories since he was a kid about how great he was. So now he can save Padme AND take over. It's even set up in episode 2. It seems pretty cut and dry and freakin obvious to me. If you really wanted to you can find similar "holes" all over the OT as well. The only difference is that you have to not go in already having made your decision that the movie is bad.

Actually, on the sound mix - I'm no audio expert so it didn't offend my ears as much as it would some peoples (although there were a few dodgy music cuts that stood out). But I went to see the movie twice at two different cinemas, both supposed to have good sound systems. The second time I saw it was a revelation - I heard effects that were totally missing in the first one. It was like listening to two different movies.

Actually - one sound criticism. Now, I love Ben Burtt's sound so this is just a minor gripe. I loved the sound of the podracers in Ep1. I thought they were audio genius. But I found half the sounds in Ep2 and 3 sounded like the podracers. There were two bits in Ep3 that stood out but I can't remember what point of the movie they were at. There was one where we cut to (I think) a hanger and, for no obviously apparent reason, there was that 'repairing' noise of Anakin's podracer. Then at another point there was his podracer thrust noise and I remember thinking - what was supposed to have made that noise? Now it's entirely possible something on screen was supposed to have done it and I just missed it but at the time it felt odd.

I think the key gripping was of an extreme substandard. It's not what I've come to expect from a Star Wars movie.

My big complaint with the sound was the music. Also the sound effects seemed quiet for what was going on screen. Nothing really had impact for me in the sound department. I thought maybe it was just the theater. Seems weird.

I don't know, it might just have been where I went to see it but the key gripping was okay and we were treated to some of the best best boying of any SW movie.

What are you talking about?

does anyone have link to the download of the movie

I think Lucas spent far much time concentrating on the best boying, contrasted with a lack of quality gaffering, which seems to be his achilles heel, and will really hurt the film in years to come.

Comedy indeed. Speaking of which, here was another pleasant shocker for me in Ep3.

Ep1's humour made me want to shoot myself. Jar Jar was unbearable and the fart jokes etc just made me embarrassed for Lucas. On more recent watches, I've found it only gets worse. I actually don't think I'll ever watch Ep1 in its entirety again because of Jar Jar. Ep2 pulled Jar Jar back but turned C3PO into a surrogate Jar Jar. His puns were awful. Disgraceful. Again, when it came to humour, I felt embarrassed.

Ep3, well 3PO is back to his normal self (which should shut those people up who were saying we only don't like him in Ep2 because we were older). But the humour? Well now we have comedy battle droids. And you know what - I enjoyed them. I actually laughed. Now I know there are probably people who didn't but I actually found them funny. They also showed me that Lucas learned to pick his moments - he had the humour at the start of the film when it would get away with it. Not like Ep2 where they had the most dramatic fight of the movie intercut with the most awful excuse for comedy imaginable. He picked his moments and, for me, he hit the mark this time!

And if you had told me I'd be laughing at comedy battle droids, I wouldn't have believed you.

r2 is the new Jar Jar. since when can he jump around like that and catch shit? i bet if luke tossed a comlink at r2 it woulda bounced off his tin head.

I must admit, the droid comedy worked for me. My audiance also laughed at some other odd places like the emporers "Noo Nooo Nooo, You Shall Die" to Mace.

Overall I love this movie, but there are a couple key moments where the music put you in a emotional state and the following cut juzt tore you out of it. The first for me was in the council chambers right before anikan races off to stop Mace. The ominous music from the previous scene set up such a great mood, and then the cut with the music change just completely killed it.

Another scene, which isnt as bad, but totatly bothers me. When yoda drops his cane, this is like the most emotional moment for me of the entire film, and the following cut to palps once again declaring order 66 just for some reason really bothers me.

Anohter thing was sound effect reuse. I swear R2D2 did his "Whaooo" noise three or four times in the opening battle. And it really erks me when I hear noises from the carbon feezing chamber used for a gun ship taking off.

Maybe I'm being overly criticle, but I await the DvD to hopefully see a better edit of the film.

never said i didnt like r2 being the new jar jar, just said he was. didnt take away from the movie any.

Yep, I enjoyed R2. I thought he was cool. For whatever reason it doesn't bother me in the slightest that he seems to have more gadgets that are lost in the OT. The only thing that got me about R2 was that there were quite a few shots where he was CG for no real reason. They didn't look bad at all, but the CG just takes you out of it a little like the CG 3PO in some of the AotC sequences. But I thought R2 was great - I loved that he had a role in that opening. It gave that sequence something which I have felt was lacking in the whole PT - a team dynamic. All three of them were working as a team and had a role to play. I really did love that whole opening section all the way to the rescue of Palpatine. I was sitting there thinking 'now that's what the PT should have been up to now, adventure, fun, heroes etc'. It appealed to the kid in me much more than anything else in the PT had. I just loved it.

And, yeah, that comlink sequence is genius. That's real Star Wars humour! Good ol' R2!

I was telling a person at work today how Ian McDermid said that. It is kind of off IMO. It doesn't really bother me, I just found it odd. Just the "NO, NO" part.

I think it's the facial expression. It's like he's about to laugh. If he said it with the same voice in a more evil twisted face, it would have came out better.

I quite liked the expression. It did look like he was about to laugh. It seemed to me he that this was his make or break time with Anakin. He would either win him over or lose him in that moment and he won. He was relishing it. That's just how it seemed to me. I certainly didn't find it funny. Well not like Anakin's dream funny in Ep2...

But I did find that Anakin line funny - 'I would certainly like to!'. It was like, 'that rotter!'. I don't know, something funny about it to me. Or his totally straight faced monotone delivery of 'I'm overwhelmed'. I couldn't help smirk at that.

Exactly. That's what I found odd about it but I didn't realize it until you said that. It is his facial expression. I wonder if they were having problems getting that shot because Ian kept laughing looking up at Shaft.

Saw it 3 times, twice on the IMAX super screen.

I LOVED it.

I can basically only reiterate what others have said, but my only major gripe was the removal of Qui Gonn and Yoda talking about how love is the key to the Force Ghost thing, which is something the jedi had trained out of them.

Other than that, I want to address Anakin's "turn".


How can people say Anakin's turn happened too fast? Are they that dumb, have that low an IQ?

Anakin's "turn" began in AOTC, when on an impulse, he gave in to his base emotions at the death of his mother, and killed the Sandpeople. THAT started it.

Now, into this movie, anyone with eyes can see Anakin WANTS to be a good man, and a good jedi, but the dark side already has seized an opening. Above all, I think the reason that people felt the turn was too fast was because they simply wrote off the padme/anakin scenes.

Yes, people cringed at the hair brush scene, but my guess (even though people won't it admit it) is that its not because it's bad, its because it is so sickeningly cute it is nausiating. Maybe I can realte better, because my fiancee' and I are ALSO like that, and we DO make people sick. But that is because we love each other so much, that after 7 years of dating, we have never lost that thrill like most people do.

And so even with that scene, it was meant to show just how MUCH Anakin not only LOVES Padme, but is IN LOVE with her. Same with all the other pre-mustafar Padme/Anakin establishing shots.

And then the bad dreams come, and Anakin just does not want to repeat history with his mother. THAT is the heart of Anakin's turn.

Again, look at the scene with Padme and Anakin staring at each other in the 2 towers, and a tear falls from Anakin's face - he has been instructed to wait at the council chambers, and yet, that tear shows he KNOWS that by disobeying, likely something bad is going to happen - but he goes for Padme.

Then the Mace, Palpy, and Anakin scene - the ONLY reason Anakin is there, is to keep Palpatine safe; NOT initially because he wants to join the Emperor, but because he wants to arrest him, in hopes that he can eventually get the secret to saving Padme from him. And when Mace goes in for the final strike, emotions take over.

Anakin's first words: "What have I done?"

People, in that moment, Anakin felt like he just tossed away his career as a jedi permanently. He can no longer walk the fence. But why was Anakin there? To save Padme, and learn the "secret" from the one person he thinks can help him.

All of it, is because he loved his woman. Love makes you do stupid things, you know? It's the question "What would you do to keep your one true love alive? Would you even risk becoming something that your True Love could no longer love anymore?"

Anakin answers "yes." He is trapped. He wants to save Padme, and now sees no other way to do it. If you look at him again, when he dedicates himself to Palpatine, Anakin isn't emphatically cheering "hooray, I'm bad! Let's go kill stuff!" He's surrendered. That moment IS powerful, because he is surrendering everything good he ever wanted to be, all to save Padme.

The turn was a movie and a half in the making - the scene where it actually happens isn't the whole turn itself; it is merely the culmination of it.[/b]

I've seen it three times now. It gets better each time I see it. The first time was really difficult for me to fully enjoy, because I had read the novel and there were so many scenes that if they had been played out as they were written in the book, they would have been a HUGE improvement, BUT:

Sith is awesome. It's the only SW film that ever got a tear out of me...I love that Leia (I believe it's her) starts crying as Padme dies, I love the "ruminations" scene, the scene on Alderaan when Leia's them starts up, the same for the Tatooine sequence with Luke's theme, I love JEJ's Vader dialogue (Yes, even the "noooo", although I would have liked a different physical reaction when he screams this), Padme's "You're breaking my heart" gets a tear every time...Palpatine, R2, Obi-wan, YODA!!!, even 3PO was cool in a subtle way...I thought it was his most subtle performance since ANH, and I loved the way he was presented...the clones, the "Plowned" scene lol...there was just so much to admire. I think one of the huge differences about this film compared to the other prequels is that there are several TRULY epic moments in the film.

Here's what else I think makes this film successful...we're TALKING about it...not just this sucked, or that was great...but the fact that we've got debate going on about thoughts, motivations, the truth, lies...just like all of the old "is Vader REALLY Luke's father???" things like that which have made Star Wars so much fun to be a part of for all of these years. I loved it. Was it perfect? No. Was it everything I'd hoped for? No. Did I enjoy myself. Damn straight. If you've only seen it once, go see it again. It's so much better the second time around. And the third...and the...well...you get the idea. Awesome.

I saw the film. It was great. As SW movies go, I give it 4 stars compared to episodes 4 and 5's 5 stars. For the record I was thoroughly spoiled thanks to this great board.

Crowd was good...Yoda got the biggest cheers like when he
- lopped the clonetroopers heads off
- jumped on Chewie's back
- crumpled the emperor's red guards.

Crowd also applauded a bit when anakin got hacked up, and when Vader first breathed. I love a good opening day crowd. Cynical here and there where appropriate (some clunky romance moments) but generally non-cynical and accepting i.e. enjoying R2's antics.

Ian McDiarmid stole the movie. It may be over-the-top Wizard of Oz style acting but he's my favorite in the saga now. Connected very well with the Emperor of ROTJ.

Some clunky editing. Portman was better but rarely really good - best when crying. Ewan McGuinness shined. Great saber battles. Opening space battle was great, but so much happens in this exhausting film that the OSB is not very memorable by the end.

Favorite moments:
- great horrified pained look in Anakin's face as helmet is lowered down, and matched ROTJ look very well.
- Yoda vs. Sidious - I loved seeing the Emperor in full action, and Yoda was less silly than in AOTC
- Dooku's "HELP" look at Palpatine before decapitation, also the hand chop and saber catch was nice
- I liked R2's humorous stuff
- Grievous's 4-saber ground-cutting walk of doom
- Music was fantastic, carried emotional moments
- Jimmy Smits was good, which is notable just because a lot of the other prequel side characters have suffered
- Mace's death was great. I was glad the lightning got him good for a few seconds before he was sent really really far away - I was worried it would just be like zap and then fall right off the ledge. A high/turning point in the film, shocking an unspoiled audience. Also nice mirrors when Vader makes a different choice in ROTJ.


Nitpicks that someone will get on my case for nitpicking:
- Qui-Gonn bit: we needed to see or hear Liam and just another 30 seconds of exposition
- Every fan review needs a bad CGI moment to gripe about and mine was Dooku's first appearance when he flips down to first confront the Jedi. Scary bad, got me nervous. Picked up well from there though.
- Not that I enjoy domestic abuse, but I thought the choking Padme moment was not quite as intense or extended as it should have been - it was unclear if she was barely hurt (just knocked out) or dead at first.
- I have to see it again but there were some weird trippy moments when Yoda was fleeing the Emperor that I didn't understand...was he scared? "Into exile" line needed more buildup and explanation i.e. that it was too much of a risk for the future of the galaxy if both Yoda and Obi-Wan (fate unknown at that time) were to die, better to hide and regroup.
- 3P0's original lines before the "have his memory wiped" would have added a bit to both the explanation and the humor of the moment (i.e. that he knew all about Leia's parents)
- blue Jedi girl's death left a little to be desired
- since they basically left zero narrative for the 20 years in between ep 3 and 4 (i.e. we see Death Star being built, Tarkin, the Tantive, Obi-wan on Tatooine, the Imperial Navy uniforms, prototype Imperial spaceships...wtf happens for the next 20 years??) he should have thrown in a shot of Dagobah....the one thread left unresolved though easily deduced; it just would have been nice to SEE it since we definitely SAW everything else.
- could have put in a few shots of the droids putting unconscious Padme in the ship


Sound was loud in my theater, and i was a little closer to the right side and could some interesting details. I DID hear Jar Jar say something at one point, though he may have only been seen from behind at that moment. Also, when Palpatine mentions the sand people on the Invisible Hand, you can hear a Tusken roar in the background of the space battle outside. The sound mix actually suffered for the first part of the film in that the center i.e. dialogue did not seem loud enough...usually a good theater too.

Well overall I was more than satisfied, though I found it a bit draining. Will see a few more times to take it in, but nothing beats an enthusiastic respectful opening day crowd (as opposed to teenagers who don't care where they're seeing.)

Thanks for reading!

Oh noes! he doesn't share your opinion!

Quick, someone call the thought police!

Seeing as I have no clue what the edit was like when JW wrote for it, this may have always been this way.

However, the scene where the new empire is declared. It cuts to the jedi control room and obiwan watching the security tapes. The music changes, and then when we get to padme's home the song picks back up again. Its such a great song, and fits so perfectly witht he scenes its behind, I just wish it hadnt been split up.

If the music continues throught he jedi control room scene, that part becomes much more emotional, and then you do adirect cut from "Use your feeling obiwan and find him you shall" to Anikan standing on the balcony, and it would work rather nicely. The only problem is then you have a reprise of the music for the "your going to kill him" and "anikan is the father isnt he" scene, which really works well with the end of that song as well.

Utterly. You are wise beyond your years.

_Mike









10

. . . it's 9 pages now!

& to think . . . most of you guys thought there would be nothing to discuss once the film actually came out!

That's one of my few nipicks, Amy Allen's "acting" for Aayla's death.. could they have taken the worst possible take of her flailing forward? Damn it looks bad. Very distracting in what should be a cool shot.

Would have been much better for her just to stand there, get shot in the back and fall face forward then get more owned.

Ahh... OT vs. PT: the great divide. Not a question of which you like better, but a question of historical significance.

Children who knew nothing of Star Wars before the prequels liked them just fine.

But only the OT changed the world. In fact, it was A New Hope that changed the world, long before it was called not A New Hope, but simply Star Wars. It changed filmmaking, changed commerce, changed special effects, marketing, licensing, and forged permanent roads into world popular culture.

The PT, trading in on that success, are fine enough films, especially if you're a bean counter. But no such sweeping influence was to be found in their wake. And RotS is just another prequel film.

The Star Wars series is now part of our storytelling history, just like Romeo and Juliet.

But my children will first be treated to the film that changed it all; the one that started it all. And then the rest of the OT.

And maybe then they can watch the films that virtually everybody else on Earth, who equally loved and revered the original Star Wars, calls disappointments.

_Mike










9

Planet of the Apes?

What are those numbers Mike...the amount of posts you have left to make before you stop coming to MF?

I just want to have someone take a picture of your face, when your child tells you they love Jar Jar.

Version I started by Biggs
http://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4404

Version II started by HarpuaFSB
http://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4711

Version III started by GunsBlazing
http://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4971


It's kind of hard to not like this movie if your a fan. Lucas has boiled down the essence of Star Wars into this movie: Lightsabers, Vader, space dogfights, Death Star, the Empire, Luke & Leia, the Droids, etc, I could go on.

The most powerful moments for me were Order 66, the beginning of the Mustafar sequence with Padmé and Obi-Wan, the Immolation scene, and the birth of Vader and the twins.

Order 66 totally felt like I was watching a Star Wars version of the Godfather. This is really the best part of this movie I think. Initially I was disappointed Plo Koon didn't have his line, but on second viewing this sequence needed to be mainly music ... along with the Emperor's creepy 'Execute Order 66' heard through-out the galaxy. The cockpit view of the Clone Pilot and the holgram of Sidious while flying along the bridge cities of Cato Neimoidia was spectacular. I also have to admit I got a little choked up during this sequence, especially seeing sweet blue Aayla get ambushed at point blank range, not even getting a chance to pull her lightsaber.

The Mustafar confrontation with Anakin, Padmé and Obi-Wan was probably the best dialouge exchange of the movie, great performances by all of them. The shot with Anakin's back to Obi-Wan seems perfect. Anakin's reluctance to fight his former master seems genuine, and when Obi-Wan lights his saber first, the duel of legend is on. Just perfect.

I also got a little choked up during the Immolation scene. Even though I had heard Obi-Wan's "you were the Chosen One!" a million times this scene still packed a punch. Great delivery by both Ewan and Hayden, very emotional. I was waiting for Hayden's delivery of "I hate you!" to ruin the moment, but it came out deranged and almost unintelligable, just perfect.

The intercut of the birth of the twins and Vader is also a great sequence. Lucas could have gone overboard with the construction of Vader, but he kept it efficient and it totally works. The birth of the twins worked better than I had anticipated, I was thinking child birth and Star Wars doesn't mix but Lucas pulled it off. That cover over her legs was a little awkward but it was probably better than having it off (they CG'd it on later) because her legs didn't look right for whatever reason.

The critisisms I have can all be lumped into the 'nitpick' or 'they could have done X a little better'.

First one I have is Padmé's funeral. The sequence itself was spectacular, but it comes right after a 3PO joke 'Oh no' and loses it's emotional punch. The music also didn't seem to evoke the sadness necessary for this scene. The Qui-Gon funeral music played while Vader was rising on the table, and it just seemed like it should have been during Padmé's funeral. Again though, it's a beautiful scene visually, I just question the pacing before it and the choice of music. I'm seeing the digital version tonight so perhaps it works better in that version since it has the Yoda/Dagobah sequence in there too.

I also think they missed a great moment after Obi-Wan escapes Utapau. In the novel, Obi-Wan has a great line where he is beginning to think he may be the last Jedi alive. "Are there any other Jedi out there, anywhere?!" One line could have made that part a little less 'get character from point A to point B' and a little more emotional.

One last gripe, and this may be an ignorant one ... correct me if I'm wrong. I've seen Revenge twice, and they were both film print versions played in 1:85:1 aspect ratio! I guess this is because the majority of American theaters only support that ratio and they needed to do that to get it up on the most screens possible. If your buying your tickets on Fandango look for the listings that say "DLP" or "BIG SCREEN". These are played at the correct aspect ratio.

MTFBWY


EDIT:



Don't lump me in with your 'Lucas raped my childhood' ideology. Some of us like Star Wars regardless of how many Oscar nominations they receive. And don't get me started on the proper viewing order or the impact each film has had on cinema, that is another debate.

what happened to anakin killing shaak ti or the rebellion delegation of 2000 the dual up until anakin gets sliced up sucked plus the scene where they are deciding what to do with twins was way to short it was like ok you take girl obiwan you take boy and oh yeah you will never see my green ass again until you die obi-wan

what happened with yoda farting and vader in the suit killing loads of people and lightsabering those commies who hate america dead and doing away with all the reading and the education and all the grammar and punctuation and full stops and commas and do you know how much my eyes feel like they're being paid in rape dollars when you type like that lol

Wow, that has to be the longest run-on sentence that I've ever seen.

Hi all,i'm new here,just registered today,but i have been checking this place out on a daily basis for months,i've been a dreaded lurker.

So now i've seen the new movie twice,and been mulling over it and its impact on the other films in the saga,i guess i feel inclined to post my thoughts.

The day before i saw Revenge i watched TPM and AOTC,then when i got home from seeing ROTS i watched ANH,aside from being really excited to see the new movie,i was equally curious as to how it fit in and affected my perspective on the other films.Of coarse,i'm not unique in that curiosity.

I loved ROTS,it did what i didn't think would happen,in fact,it surpassed my wildest expectations in terms of linking the saga together,not only has it linked them,it changed them,it has made Ep's 1 and 2 better,which i did not think possible.

Those films highten what Palpatine does in ROTS,just how long he has been laying in wait to see his plan come togetherhow many chess pieces he had to move to make it a success,that is one patient m/f.
After instigating so much,he still leaves alot to chance,and manipulates the outcome to his advtage,he would still have come out smelling of roses if he had a Monica Lewinsky type scandel!!!

Seriously though,i certainly feel alot more leanient of Ep's 1 & 2's shortcomings having seen ROTS.

Now Anakin,his fall was certainly accptable to me,looking back as early as TPM he has a compeditive streak,being a pod-racer,even his friends don't have confidence in him to win a race,so he feels he has to be the best to prove them wrong,plus being a slave,he's always had that urge to be released from the restraints that have been put on him all his life,this follows through to AOTC,he feels held back from achieving his full potential,this obviously breeds impatience and arrogance,that looking to the future,not focusing on the here and now that Yoda critised Luke for in ESB.The way he lost his mother triggering the un-controllable anger,rage and lust for revenge,and starts him on his search for more power.

By the time of ROTS,he knows he is failing as a Jedi,morally,i mean he's broken every code they have,but even though he knows this,he still cannot understand why the Jedi do not respect or trust him,this show a certain amount of denial of his actions,Obviously being far too caught up in the war and having thier vision clouded by the dark side to recognise the severity of his torment and confusion,so in a sense they have failed him,but i'm not sure he'd have listened to them had they tried.

As has been said before here,Palpatine has given him the time and a friendly ear for Anakin to pour out his woes,telling him what he needs to hear,"your the best,the most powerful,they should put more faith in you,i can give you the knowledge you seek",manipulating him and poisining his mind so when the time comes Anakin will carry out his dirtiest of deeds.

Even before Palpatine poisens his mind,Anakin was well on the way to the dark side,he's the kind of guy whose sorry when its too late to take it back,its in his very nature,he may well care about people and want to stop they're pain,but more so he doen't want to feel the pain of loss himself,Thinking inwards.

When he actually pledges alliegance to the Sith,after fucking up Windu's plans to finish off the Sith,he does it for selfish reasons,to get the knowledge to save Padme,he knows he can't go back,he knows Sidious won't give him that knowledge without something in return,he realises there is no going back,he can't keep this one a secret,he's got nowhere else to go,he'll do Sidious' bidding for the knowledge he has,he has also freed himself from the restraints of the Jedi order and its code,so now the possibilities are limitless,get the knowledge,save Padme,and then rid the universe of the Sith,prove the Jedi they were wrong about him,then he and his wife can restore the galaxy and rule it the way they see fit.
he's thinking of all the positive things that can come out of his situation.
He going to get what he wants,but the lust for more takes over,and ultimately the release of his hate,jealousy,frustration and anger that he has felt since the he was a padawan,the release is overwhelming.
Anakin does show fleeting moments of remorse.backing up Luke's claim that there is still good in him.
Vader in the OT,he is remorseless to everyone except Luke,he thinks that nobody will know pain and suffering like he does,He's lost his mother,wife and in his mind his child,he horrifically scarred and mutilated,betrayed even,so in his mind,what ever punishment he dispences on anyone cannot possibaly compare to how he feels.

Any way,i'm rambling,an i know i'll get told off.
As pleased as i am with ROTS,when i left the theater,i felt the same way as when i'd just seen any one of the Lord Of The Rings movies,it felt alot had been cut out for the sake of time,but where we had the Extended LOTR films on dvd,i don't think it'll happen with this,where i thought TPM & AOTC could have done with stuff taken out,i felt this could have done with a little more,nevermind,fuckin' brilliant end to the best sci-fi movies ever.

Edit:i whole heartedly see all six movies as a whole now,not PT vs. OT,this one film has done that for me.

There are two things I'm confused about. Maybe this was answered already and my eyes missed it. Maybe it was even answered in the movie and I just missed it (because it was nearly 2 in the morning and had gotten rather tired).

My two questions are these. On Mustafar before Vader gets mad and chokes Padme, he rants on about how he can overthrow Sidious and they can rule the world as husband and wife. So, it sounds like he's NOT on his new master's side. But then on the lava river, he tells Obi-Wan that HIS point of view is that the JEDI turned against him. It's like he changed his mind and that he IS on his new master's side.

Do you know what I'm saying? I'm kind of confused about this issue.

I think thats a case of a Sith only being loyal to him/her self,they look out for No.1,they use each other as a means to an end,Sidious saves the remains of Anakin because he see's him as the future of the Sith order,plus he cannot rule the galaxy as a Sith by himself,he needs Vader.

He's insane.

This very same thing happened in the OT, BTW. In ESB Vader begs Luke to join him so that they can overthrow the Emperor. In ROTJ he tells Luke that he MUST obey his master.

The Sith are driven by fear and hate and have no allegiances to anyone, even each other. They only cooperate when it serves their personal agendas to do so.

My guess . . . when it's gets down to it - he would have rather ruled with Padme by his side over Sidieous.
He (intitially) turned to the dark side for her
he turned against the Jedi code for her (when he married her)
hell . . . he loved her before he ever even bacame a Jedi!

just as she rejected the offer - he saw Obi-Wan standing inside the ship
remember the 2nd dream?
remember how Anakin got all pissy when he asked if Obi-Wan had been comming to the apartment & she said yes?
can you spell jealousy? it's part of the path to the darkside

he thinks Obi has turned Padme against him
so . . .
without her he'll just stick to the one that (he thinks) has been on his side all along . . . Sidieous

With all of the talk Tern sparked about Anakin's reaction to the "lie" being off, I need some help. Could somebody point me to the scene prior to "the turn" where Palps claims to Anakin that he already has this power? I am 100% positive Palps never claims he was the apprentice that killed Plaguies, it may be implied, but he never said it. Nor does he ever tell Anakin he has this power. In short, where and when did he lie to Anakin?

Also, the obligatory first time poster, long time lurker. Nice to meet you.

If anyone thinks that Anakin wanting to kill the emperor is out of character and its not set up I want to ask this:

In ESB Vader tries to freeze Luke because he is the "Emperor's prize." 2 minutes later he's telling Luke to join him so they can go kill the Emperor. It's a total 180 in his goal. Why is this not ok in ROTS then (even though I think its LESS of a change in ep 3)? I mean I know ESB is the untouchable masterpiece.



It's in the theater scene. He says Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew.

eliminating redundancy and can't delete for whatever reason.

Lord, no. George Lucas is a visonary and rebel who created Star Wars never knowing how big it was going to be, yet laid out this incredible galaxy of dramatic characters and became a pillar of modern mythology.

He's also a billionaire living on a Ranch surrounded by hundreds of the most talented people on Earth and virtually no truth. And he's making mistakes a 2nd year film student wouldn't. If anything, I'm saying he's human. And while I love him - his film inspired, quite literally, my entire life's pursuits - even he wasn't happy with the way the original Star Wars turned out. It's just that the rest of the universe was. With the PT he's been able to do it the way he always wanted. And not only do I not think they're anywhere near as good, I have some pretty basic filmmaking principles to back that with; mistakes not made on the first go-around.

But I love hearing that people love Star Wars... PT, OT, doesn't matter. In the end, inspiring passion, debate, and happiness is what I'm in the business for. Because that's what Star Wars taught me about the power of filmmaking.



You're a gentleman, and a scholar. And you'll get your wish soon enough.

_Mike









8

Dr Bass, did Sids ever say he is in fact that very apprentice?

I don't remember but I think it's made pretty clear. Look at the look on his face when he talks about Darth P being killed by his apprentice. He's obvously very satisfied with himself.

The Mverta final post countdown! No need to leave man.

Also I've attended film classes at one of the best universities in the world. You give way too much credit to film students.

My point here is that the viewer believes he is the aforementioned Apprentice because we saw a sly look that Anakin did not. Does Anakin believe this? There is no possible way he does or else Anakin would have turned Palpatine over to the Jedi right then and there, just like did when he ACTUALLY found out.

Doesn't Palpatine also say "I have the power to save your wife"...?

Both times I saw it, the crowd was very subdued in the final half of the film, and afterwords, standing around in the lobby, if you didn't know any better, you'd think most the fans were quite disappointed. I just think that it was because the end was such a downer. I LOVED that moment, especially the way it was intercut, but I couldn't imagine anyone cheering because I was so into the emotion of the movie at that point.


As for A New Hope, I just watched it last night. In my opinion there is no way that Sith, or even Empire, match that movie, and this coming from a guy who saw that movie third, only ten years ago, so it's not some nostalagic childhood memory bullshit. It's just so much fun. I literally laughed out loud a dozen times.

It's interesting how these movies play out in order. There's such darkness and tragedy, then such fun and humor, it's a nice one-two punch.

On a sidenote, the two strangest lines in the whole six are delivered by Carrie Fisher:

-"Don't just stand there try to brace it with something." She screams it only half a second after the walls were moving. I laugh every time.

-Just before her and Luke swing across the chasm, right after he says he fried the contols--"They're coming through," yet no one is coming and the door was just shut.

But they're delivered with such passion that no one ever complains about those lines.

That's the problem Dr Bass, I can't remember if he says that or "only through me can you can acheive the power to save your wife"(or something like that). I'm gonna see it again this weekend, ty.