http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/new ... eson_x.htm




Frickin sweet! So much for rumors that his scene in ROTS has been cut.

lolish lets hope there right

USA Today -what the hell do they know about anything?

Agreed Raptor. I read in another paper (can't remember which though) the other day that Liam Neeson will be in ROTS because he was seen a lot on set during filming. yeah, right. If he was, I'm sure we'd known. The reporter had a lot of other factual error in his article too. I hate when people who haven't done their homeworks write SW articles. They get everything mixed up.

however, i'd love if Neeson was in ROTS, eeven if it's only as a voice. Hope the scene can be left in the film.

LOL!!!! - however...you forget that, over here, we are all PhD's in the science of SW spoilers....you can't say the same about the 'rest of the world'

i pity the ign'ant folk out there who buy that shit.... 8-)

Well they did get the title Revenge of the Sith correct before the official announcement.

Has anyone but Luke even seen a force ghost? Maybe it's just part of the Skywalker legacy.

Or maybe Lucas wipes his ass with continuity.

LOL "They see dead people." LOL

too good

Having Qui-Gon only speak as a voice rather than appear as a ghost helps squash any lame sheep questions of why he doesnt appear as a ghost with the other 3 Jedi at the end of ROTJ (for the moment putting aside the fact that Luke doesn't even know who Qui-gon is). I prefer the idea that Qui-Gon figured out how to retain his essence, but Obi-Wan was the first to retain his physical appearance.

But Yoda sees Obi-Wan's ghost BEFORE he dies. I'm quite sure, anyway.

It would be great if Qui-Gon did make one more appearance physically in ROTS, but I somehow doubt it. Qui-Gon seems to be the intermediary step between death and retaining one's full identity in the Force: that is, he is a disembodied voice (whether or not we hear the voice of are just told of it through Yoda is another matter). It is Obi-Wan and Yoda who truly maintain their entire identity. But Qui-Gon, I suppose you could say, discovered it.

Not to bring up that "other site" but some dude on TFN said he has seen the movie and qui gon does appear as a ghost, in the robes he was wearing when he died in ep 1. I guess that would mean no cloak or anything.

Of course we have heard this crap before so there is a good chance the dude is lying but it would jive with USA today I guess. He claims you only seem him after all of his lines have already been spoken and that it was Liam Neeson.

Hmmm Ternian & DP want to clarify this?

He can't not have Qui Gon in it (even if only as a voice), he has said that force ghosts will be explained.

I'm not worried about hearing from Jinn.

Basically, but didn't he say the same thing about Sifo-Dyas, aka whoever erased the files from the Jedi archives? There nothing at least in the movie itself that explains that (I know it was in LOE).

It's an Arab/bedouin (pre-Islamic) concept of spirits that inhabit the desert wilderness. They're not so much evil as they are simply not to be fucked with.

Hearing the voice would be a nice payoff to Neeson's character and to the tease in AOTC, but I don't think it's essential. The story point could be established (though less dramatically) just with the dialogue between Yoda and Obi-Wan; even then, I don't think the story point itself is pivotal for this movie or for the later episodes. Left unstated, I'd still buy that the two Jedi, with nothing but time on their hands, discovered this power through intense meditation.

Fixed.

Here's a funny thought. If Qui Gonn is a ghost now, why wouldn't he want to see the progress of Luke or talk to Obi-wan as a ghost too? Hell, why not have him show up in the end of ROTJ? Oh I smell another remake of added shit into the OT.

Probably because if Qui Gon's ghost showed up, Obi-Wan's ghost would kick his ass for making him train Anakin and causing all this trouble in the first place.

Well obviously, Yoda is really Anakin's father then.

Okay, now comes in the bad German that nobody knows to spoil the fun;)

Qui Gon is not in, at least not in the theatrical version. Not as a voice and not as a ghost...

If he is in the digital version I do not know...could be, there have been differences in AOTC as well

Question:

is the force ghost thing related to having the ability to dissapearring upon death? Because Yoda and Ben dissappear when they die and of course they return as ghosts. BUt when Qui-Gon dies, he never dissapears. Nut yet in Episode II we hear him as a force ghost in the tusken slaughter sequence. It also seems that Vader doesn't dissapear either, but he comes back at the end as a ghost. So, it doesn't seem to be related.

Pablo Hidalgo Date Posted: Mar 24, 2004 09:40 AM
Answer:
It is, since according to George Lucas, Vader did disappear. At least, it was his mandate that the starwars.com databank and the Star Wars Encyclopedia state that explicitly.

Qui-Gon didn't disappear, so he can't appear or that would fuck up the story.

I have no problem with Qui-Gon speaking to Yoda, but I don't want to see him.

Close your eyes.
Just kidding, I think it would be cool if Yoda had actually reached an awareness where he sees him. However, in LOE he is clearly hearing him only, not seeing him. For what that's worth!

Yeah, sure, it was so important for Lucas that people would understand Vader's body dissapears, that not only he didn't think about it enough to show that in ROTJ from 1983, but also while adding all those new scenes to the movie in 1997 and 2004 versions, he didn't bother to add those 3 extra seconds of him starting to dissapear. Remember, he even put Hayden in the final scene, so it can not be assumed he thinks it's to big a change to do it now. Either way it was always supossed to be clear for a true Star Wars fan from the movie alone (I doubt that) or it was meant to lack a definitive answer to make the Force more interesting.

Besides in the DVD audio commentary Lucas himself refers to Vader's funeral scene as "this little scene where Luke burns Anakin's body".

And don't you think that Luke burning his fathers body and not just some leftovers is much more powerful and much more funeral like?

Neesen broke his leg in 2001 in a motorcycle accident. Sounds like they did poor research for the article.

I hope there is a ghost Qui Gon... but consider this article from Brunching.com. Lore argues that the only way to get a Magic Ghost Body is to die in front of Luke. This article was published in 1998, before Phantom Menace... It caused some people, like myself, to bust out laughing at the end when Qui Gon's ghost body was nowhere to be seen. So far, this ironically is the best theory about the whole Ghost Body thing.
The writer meant it jokingly, but it's the best explanation out there.


"The Luke Side of the Force"
by Lore Sjöberg

So last night I'm watching "Return of the Jedi: Now With Fakey-Looking Computerized Creatures Instead of Fakey-Looking Rubber Creatures," which I got for Christmas, and I noticed that Lucas hasn't fixed the main non-Ewok problem with the movie: the fact that the final battle between Luke and Vader makes no sense.

Here we have Luke "Badass" Skywalker, Jedi Extraordinaire. He's mown down Stormtroopers like bowling pins on bumper night, sliced open Imperial Walkers, and given the Death Star a photon colonic once already, not to mention all the womp rats he must have massacred. He's built his own lightsaber, raided Johnny Cash's closet, and watched his Jedi master snuff it. At long last he's brought before the Grand Imperial Old Guy himself, who's sitting there giving off smarm rays, and Luke decides, for no apparent reason, that killing the Emperor -- this one guy -- would tip him over the edge into the yawning abyss of Jedi perdition. I don't get it.

There's always the "defenseless" explanation, but that doesn't cut it. He could blow up everyone in the Death Star 1.0 in one force-guided shot, but he couldn't kill one guy in Death Star 2.0? If he had left, grabbed an X-Wing and blown up the whole damn battlestation that would have been Yoda-Kosher, but taking him one-on-one is bad juju? Not to mention the fact that when Darth offs the Emperor, that turns him into a good guy.

I have a better explanation. The fact is that, throughout the three films, everyone Luke meets is completely bullshitting him about the Force. They make up all this crap about Dark and Light and Good and Evil to disguise that there's only one rule to the Force: die in front of Luke.

Let's rewind to the first movie. Obi-Wan is facing it off with the Sith Lord. They play lightsaber pattycake for a while, and then Luke shows up. Obi-Wan looks over as if to say "Oh, good. Luke's here. Now I can die," and gives the fuck up. Darth, not having noticed Luke's presence, delivers the killing blow, and Obi-Wan gets a magical ghost body.

Then in "Empire," Obi's feeling pretty good about himself and decides to let his old friend Yoda in on some of this spirit-form action. He sends Luke to Dagobah, but how to keep him there until Yoda's ready to shuffle off this mortal sequel? No prob, just make Luke Yoda's "student" and provide him "training." A couple dumb levitation tricks will keep Luke wide-eyed while nature wracks Yoda's withered old latex body. You'll notice that when Luke decides to save his friends Yoda and Ben get all mystical and start making prophesies, none of which come true. They're not seeing the future, they're just trying to get Luke to stay put.

Now we're back to "Jedi." Luckily, Luke still hasn't seen through the plan, and he shows up just in time for Yoda to kick the Muppet bucket. Score one for Yoda, he gets a magical ghost body.

Then, there's the Final Battle. Emperor Palpatine doesn't have the subtlety of the rest of the Jedi gang, so he just says "Hey. Kill me." What he doesn't realize is that Luke is the goodwill ambassador for reverse psychology, and so Luke, just to be contrary, doesn't. Palpatine gets pissed off and decides that if he can't have a magical ghost body, nobody can. Darth, seeing his only chance for a cool afterlife being fried in front of his eyes, has a great plan. He grabs the wrinkled old Imperial coot and throws him down a convenient Tunnel O' Energy, out of Luke-death range. This has the double effect of ruining the Emperor's plans ("I was getting really tired of him anyway," thinks Darth) and putting Vader on this last legs. He plays on the maudlin "father" thing to get Luke to take off the helmet, and dies in front of him. Ta-da!

So there you go. Lucas tries to make you think that the Star Wars Trilogy is a re-telling of ancient tales dragged up from the collective unconscious, with lessons for us all about good and evil, hubris and loyalty, when it's really just a story about a bunch of guys who want to die in front of Luke.

(http://www.brunching.com/lukeside.html

I think he'll be in it but only so you can hear him.
Besides, I have not seen an action figure of him yet for the new movie so that settles it

The only Qui-Gon concerning part of the movie that could be cut out without fucking up the story is that piece of dialogue in the Trivial Pursuit clip. I think the earlier dialogue works actualy better without that addon.

Damn, I forgot Kevin Smith did write about that being in the movie in his review.

I hope both scenes are in then.

It was just confirmed at the TFN boards. Poster Emos Edud's brother saw the film tonight at a FOX screening in Toronto. He confirmed that Qui-Gon does NOT appear in the movie in any form. He is only mentioned, by Yoda at the end to Obi.

However, his brother said the movie was "mindblowing" however, which helps ease the pain a bit.

I have no faith in anyone's word from that messageboard.


Not saying he's wrong, as we've known for a while of the possibility of the scene being cut, but I'd like a more trustworthy report.

If the dialogue with Yoda is skipped, wouldn't that be a pretty stupid transition? The film will not officially explain how Jedi are able to become spirits.

The graphic novel has a panel where Yoda is meditating in an empty room having a conversation with Qui Gon.

Interesting that this debate rages on since it was reported years ago that Qui-Jon would not be in Episode II but would re-appear in Episode III.

7/12/00 - Liam Neeson told the Italian newspaper La Repubblica (reprinted by JediNet) that he won't be returning for this film, though he probably will be for Star Wars Episode III.

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808406059

You're right since:
a) that report came eons before the script for ROTS was in it's first draft.
b) we've heard reports for months that an existing scene including Qui-Gon's voiceover was cut.


Way to bring the case to a close, douchebag.

"The film will not officially explain how Jedi are able to become spirits."

There's actually an old quote from George on this.

One of the things that will never get explained in the films is how Ben was able to retain his identity, because it happened somewhere in between the third and fourth movies. I set up that this is a discipline that he learned from Yoda; Yoda told him how to do that. We don't ever get to see how he does it, but the idea of retaining your identity after you've passed on is something that Ben learned as a Jedi.

And Pablo on the OS said the only difference is that now you need to take out the word "never."

It seems that it is cut since more than one person who has pretty decent proof they saw it is saying it's not in there. Terribly decision IMO.

There was an exhibitor screening in Corte Madera, CA tonight. Some guy at TFN was there and scanned his ticket stub as proof. According to him the Qui-Gon scene is NOT in the movie. Only the part where Yoda mentions Qui-Gon to Ob-Wan.

Well that's a buzz killer. I was looking forward to Yoda and Qui-Gon having a small conversation, of sorts. It kind of leaves us hanging.

I really hate how Lucas said he was going to do stuff, and then didn't. Take for example Aurra Sing: She was said to have a huge role in the prequels, and we sall her once for about half a second.

Also, everyone made such a huge deal when Qui-Gon didn't disappear, and everyone was saying (I believe Lucas, or someone of the sort) said that "It would be explained in the later films," which obviously, it isn't.

Oh well, for all I know it is explained. So I'll shut up now.

"All this dying, preety sad it was and there isn't much left for us to do now, but do not despair Obi-Wan, your old master Qui-Gon has figured out a trick to comfort us and keep us occupied in these dark times - talking to various dead men who retained their identities in the Force - and after we die we will have the same abilities ourselves if we will want to. That shows the power and wisdom of the light side, ha!?"

I hope they at least added Yoda saying "Still much to learn there is..." and that he feels guilty for failing the Jedi into different places in the movie, becouse he doesn't seem to care to much about anything or even suspect he didn't have enough knowledge about the nature of the Force in any of the other last scenes of the screenplay. Without any moment of Yoda expressing the fact he did actualy notice something went wrong and with his stoic behaviour all the time the scene where he says about the right time to reappear in the future looks like he doesn't really know what he is talking about, whatever happens it's all the same to him.

goddamnit. lucas will pay on May 16th if its not in.

I dont get the frustration here. The same explanation is in the film whether or not Liam Neeson says anything at all.

Yoda still talks to Obi-Wan and tells him he has new training for him to study from Qui-gon.

Why have two scenes telling the audience the exact same thing? An extraneous scene has been edited out because it is not really needed.

why is this still being discussed?

As I have written earlier the Qui-Gon scene is the only one showing Yoda having any kind of regrets and it's also defining for his and Obi-Wan's character change between PT and OT - we get a reason for them to become so much more humble and distanced from the outside world and it is explained why their lifes had to become so hermit-like during those 20 years.

This is the only scene, where it is mentioned that there is still much to learn (for Yoda and Obi), much more to let go, this identity-immortality is something achieved only through compassion, it's a different kind of existence then a prolonged life and it grants both a greater connection to the Force and a new kind of influence over things, it's a great power and something that could show a new way to destroy the Sith, after lightsabers have been proven to be not enough to beat them.

The second scene (Obi and Yoda) seems forced and confusing without the dialogue between Yoda and Qui-Gon, lacks the things I mentioned above and Obi-Wan's training doesn't seem to have a point.

So for me it's a vital scene. I would trade half of the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel for it.

Sounds like GL disagreed, and you're shit outta luck.

The entire end of the movie has Obi-wan and Yoda regretting the state of the galaxy, and if Yoda has new training for Obi-Wan it's obvious they still have things to learn.

Does every story thread have to be spoon fed for it to be any good?

I never understood people who follow spoilers getting upset when a scene is cut from the film, it's usually done for a good reason.

You should have no trouble understanding at least some of those people, becouse you wrote "usually" and not "always".

For me this is the first deletad scene in any Star Wars movie that I think should be left in, I didn't start complaining just becouse it's fashionable in certain circles.



I didn't notice Yoda doing any regretting in the screenplay. Maybe his facial expressions will tell everything about how he feels about things, but I doubt that.

And by still having things to learn I didn't mean just any kind of learning. I meant learning of something essential to the situation and being a Jedi, like bringing balance to the Force or fighting the Dark side. Training to commune with the dead and to join the Force at will seems without any further explenations hardly a way (or part of a bigger plan) to change back the state of the galaxy, does it?



No, but this one I feel is way to vague now.



Yeah, I wil have to deal with it. And I guess I will manage. This absence will annoy me however.

too, not to.

Big deal...maybe it will make it into the DVDs.

I totally agree and I am disappointed, too.
The actual presence of Qui-Gon in this movie would have revaluated and deepened Episodes I and II and the PT trilogy as a whole, as well as the whole Star Wars saga.

I'm looking forward to a special edition.

You're all forgetting that if it's not in the movie, it's because Neeson refused to do it.