Yeah - "You were the chosen one" - it's almost a "why did you have to do this, you didn't have to be down there melting, you made me do this to you, you bloody fool - it didn't have to be this way!" kind of thing...

I guess the big questions are:

- is Ani conscious? is he begging Obi to save him? (I think even I would cry) or is he still arrogant, even when he is limbless and melting?

- does Obi just decide to leave him there? does Mustafar's unstability cause him to leave? does Palpatine's arrival force him to leave - or does he suddenly remember Padmé and have to make a choice?:

Save Ani or Padmé

Are you insane?

lol sorry, but that was extremely idiotic.

No, I haven't read anything more of the scene beyond what Ternian just posted. Is there an article I haven't seen?

Since I'm going to have to wait for part II, I'll take your word for it since you seem to have more knowledge of the matter than I - though any sharing would be appreciated.

Yeah, well.

But thanks for pointing it out.

Just to the forum note sticky, dude. It's all there for ya.

Staring right at me, all this time! Thanks! Looks like your interpretation is accurate. My mistake.

Holy shit...i didnt want to read that but it was already too late..i seriously cannot picture this...insane..

Your allowed to have one “Fuck” with PG-13.

Tern - again with the generious! Thanks again!

Obi-1/Anakin - father/son relationship; not visible in PM; only slightly better in AOTC - guess EU is where the relationship will be forged - I don't see it.

Battle to the death. One lives. One dies. Obi-1 is fighting for his life (we believe), so he would use whatever abilities, defenses and tricks he had available to him. His "love" for Anakin remains, but there isn't an "Anakin" anymore, is there? Although, I think, Obi-1 will during this final duel attempt to bring Anakin back - it will hurt his chances at surviving - and ultimately cause him to decided to win and live. Anakin hanging on the edge of a cliff... would he cry for help? Obi-1 would save him if he did - no matter what.

His spinal cord may be damaged so that he needs the respirator. Falling off a cliff can account for this.

Here is another possibility. Not sure if its been discussed here or not, but maybe he isn't hurt that badly. Obviously, he's totally fucked up, but maybe its something that he can recover from with a few prosthetics, some rest, and physical therapy. But the emperor tells his doctors to perform this elaborate procedure on him, making just about everything he can possibly do without into a machine, as a means of controlling him.

Doctor: He's lucky to be in this good of shape, given the spill he took. He's got some serious burns, but his heart is still beating, and does not have any spinal or brain injuries. We can replace the limbs, do some skin grafts, and he'll be good to go in a couple months.

Palpatine: No. Replace everything.

They don't ever have to show Obi-Wan and Anakin having a great friendship. Ever. You can see why. Obi-Wan never just openly cares for Anakin because he feels he has a responsibility as a mentor (and unfortunately, as most fathers do) to drill life's lessons into Anakin with a stern hand. I think by the time A New Hope rolls around, we get the idea that Obi-Wan has regrets and some of them were that he didn't show he cared for Anakin more than he should have. I think also, by the end of Revenge of the Sith, obviously from the trailer in the words: "You were the Chosen One", we get to see that Obi-Wan really cares for Anakin. He feels betrayed by someone he really cares for.

I don't think I made any sense.

As a way to tie him to Sidious... nice idea

They are different personalities, and don't always agree on everything, but at the same time, they watch out for each other and are definately friends. Even if they don't show it. Who here has an older brother? You might fight all the time, but he's always there when you need him.

Sky - that's a little harsh. Obi-1, padawan, looses Master, gets elevated to Knight and saddled with padawan - "..another life form...". We don't know what happened in the ten years between I and II, and it's not fair to think that Obi-1 tolerated Anakin - they had to have built some kind of relationship. I just can't see father/son - those are deep relationships, where there is mutual respect (lots of arguments, but...) and trust. If that relationship doesn't exist then there is reason for Anakin to lean more towards Palpatine then Obi-1. And that is one of the cruxs. Why would Anakin trust Palpatine more than Obi-1? It's not the father thing - stern, discipline, etc... Palps feeds his ego, sure! Obi-1 ruffels his fur, sure! So, we have a ten years span without information. And now a three year span with minimal infomation. EP III seems to focus on the relationship as being best of, and almost,... but much to late, I think. Much to late.

he's basically standing there screaming "You dumb motherfucker"

Christ, That was Part 1 ??


No wonder why Anikan hates sand.

oh shit i didn't even think of that haha

OK, a couple of things...

1) You don't need direct contact with fire or lava to lungs to injure them severely. Most burn victims have inhalational injuries of smoke or soot that can horrible damage their lungs causing respiratory failure.

2) I agree that the " You were the chosen one!" is like "Obi- Wan's lament". He can no longer contain his emotion and frustration at what his pupil has become

3) Thank the Lord that "kid Han" has been nixed from the script

I seriously feel that at this point Anikan will no longer be, and we will have a crazy limbless vadar clawing at the ground screaming that he shall seek his revenge.

"We shall meet again Obi-WAN!!!!!!!!"

The anger and rage swelling in him as his lungs begin to fail.

Awesome news Tern. Especially like the follow post about Obi-Wan's dialog.

Poor little screaming Obi-Wan doesn't understand that by eliminating the old Jedi and eventually the Sith, he is putting the Force back into balance. Oh well, Qui-Gon and Luke will eventually show them the way.

Congrats to fearisthepath for the best Star Wars tie in joke. Bonus points for using one of the most hated lines in the entire saga and making it work.

"I don't like sand, it's course, and rough, and it get's into your open wounds as they cauterize." - Anakin

"Is that bacon I smell?" - Obi-Wan

I think a point is being missed here..........Anakin Skywalker does not exists anymore.....only Darth Vader. Once Obiwan realized this it was either him or Vader. Do you think Vader was gonna show sympathy to Obiwan?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
FUNNY! Water running from my eyes!

About the droids, you can see 'm in the teaser trailer(the first teaser of rots)
Don't know if they are crabdroids, but they are indeed droids( workerdroids maybe like sombody mentioned)

As for the report

Obiwan had no choice but to defend himself (it was defenitely selfdefense), he aimed at the sabre to repost.
As for Anakin slipping away after that , i would've liked the idea of him getting to safety on his own that makes him almost indestructable, crawling out of the sand , with his communicator still intact, that makes the Vader character seem more powerfull to me.(but it likely be Palpatine saving him, or the troopers)

As for Obiwan screaming "You're the Chosen One", I picture Anakin shivering as a reaction to the hot sand (giving Obiwan the impression he's crying) but Anakin screaming 'Dont underestimate the power of the Darkside(or somthing like that), It isn't over yet' I mean Anakin won't succumb to his fate and won't cry for mercy, why would he he's got the Sith burning within himself.

(But iff he does show a feeling of remorse, he cries out "the sabre give it to my son, I sense I have a son, give it to Luke.)

He doesn't expect to survive, so being saved is a second chance to encounter Obi-Wan

It makes his revenge at the beginning of a new hope more understandable,

And Obiwan letting himself being killed while Luke is watching more logical.

I got the impression that it's Obi-Wan who's arse is getting kicked for most of the duel

Two pages back someone mentioned that Obi-Wan kept telling Luke to Kill Vader, but no one ever did this. They kept telling him to confront and face Vader not to destroy him. Why I don't know but I just wanted to put the "Obi wan always wanted to kill Vader's A**" argument to rest.

Also, someone also mentioned that there may be parallel between Luke letting go in ESB when offered the Dark Side and Anakin possibly refusing Obi-Wan's attempt to rescue him from the Lava in ROTS.

If that happens, the parallels, and what that implies about Vader's reaction in ESB when Luke chooses suicide over the dark side is going to F***in ROCK!!!

Technically, you're correct - neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda ever say anything directly about killing Vader. However, in ROTJ, Luke tells Obi-Wan that (paraphrasing) "I can't kill my own father" to which Obi-Wan replies "Then the Emperor has already won". So I think you can see why some people infer that they wanted Luke to kill Vader. That's how I read it.

I have to say... this is a cool spoiler. I agree with Fatboy Roberts about the whole issue of not really caring about the element of surprise... I just want to see how well it's all carried off too. I've known for a while that Obi-Wan severs most of Vader's limbs (can't remember where I read it, but I remember knowing it for some time); it's also a nice use of poetic justice by GL that the only limb he's left with is his robotic arm, good symbolism there.

Reading this has made me quite excited about witnissing the whole scene of Anakin's defeat and his eventual transformation into Darth Vader as we see him in the OT.

Off topic but you could argue that Luke does 'kill' Vader and saves Anakin at the same time.

Anyhoo, Obi-Wan is, I'd expect, on a mission to stop Anakin. But I suspect at this final moment he wants to help him. Something that haunts him throughout the OT.

In RoTJ Luke tells Obi Wan that he believes there is still good in Vader, which Obi Wan immediately dismisses with the "he's more machine than man now, twisted and evil" (paraphrasing) line. Later Luke says "I cannot kill my own father" to which Obi Wan immediately replies "Then the Emperor has already won." Yoda doesn't say anything along these lines, but OW sure does.

If Obi Wan was trying to destroy Vader the Sith Lord on Mustafar right after he turned, why would he have a change of heart 20+ years down the line after Vader had spent years and years as a Sith Lord?

Exactly right koramatah. The "old" Jedi don't believe in Anakin's redemption, they never did, just like they never believed in his potential. Why - because the only way he could be redeemed was to understand that he could still love again. This is exactly why Anakin fell and exactly why Obi-Wan and Yoda could've NEVER brought him back. They wanted him destroyed... plan and simple.

Only Luke, Leia, or Padme could've redeemed him. It's the thought that through family, you can look past the problems and see the good in a person. It's the hope that through your offspring, you achieve true eternal life because the best of you continues.

This is why Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin are all smiling at Luke in the end. He redeemed them all through his act of love for his father, just as Anakin saves Luke through his love of his son. The Force is back in balance because there is a Jedi that understands this and the old ways have been destroyed.

Jedi Master Matt,

Beautifully said, I couldn't agree more.

"His lightsaber"
"Ah yes, A Jedi's weapon, much like your father's"

The Emperor is wrong too. Luke's saber resemble Obi-Wan's more than Vader's saber.

For those of you who think spoilers could ruin your enjoyment of the movie when it finally comes out... what in the world are you doing posting on a website devoted to spoilers? Do you just like living dangerously?

This seems to solidify the PG-13 rating I think. It would be pretty insane to only make it PG. Thanks for the report; it sounds so amazing.

ObiWan = bad ass. need i say more??? cant wait for part 2.

Where there are lightsabers beying swung around, there will be severed limbs. It's a given. It's not about being nice.

Or maybe since none of us know shit about lightsabers, because they are a made up thing in a fantasy world, they could be alike in ways that we don't understand, but a Jedi, who knows lightsabers inside and out, might recognize right away.

There could be similarities that go beyond the outward appearance. I wouldn't worry too much about this. If Obi-wan thinks they're kind of alike, I agree with him.

lightsabers = eu

The way I see it is.. mythologically speaking Anakin is the dead and risen god archetype.. he has virgin birth, dies and rises again as vader... but as the fallen angel he redeems himself.

The way I figure it is.. when Anakin falls into the lava he dies.. he physically dies.. then he is reanimated as a cyborg..in the same way grevious is.. the only point of having grevious is to show that the technology to sustain life electronically exists by end of episode 3.

In the end of Return of the Jedi.. Anakin's force ghost is a young man not because the force remembers the good part of you (otherwise Obi Wan would look young, etc) but that it retains your identity at the moment you die.. and I think Anakin essentially dies in Ep 3 and Palpatine reanimates him with Sith power and with cyborg parts. Which either Palpatine uses as leverage against Darth Vader to keep him his minion or whatever.. but Darth Vader is basically a vegetable in a walking iron lung..

Obi Wan doesn't really care about Darth Vader one way or the other.. as he says "hes more machine now than man, twisted and evil" so in his mind, Darth Vader is a droid that needs to be shut down.. The Emperor is the real problem.. ObiWan and Yoda know that but up until that point Luke really doesn't. He wants to turn Darth Vader and make him good and human again..

Well said, Vince. Makes sense.

"Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them."

I'd fuck a Jedi too --->aayla


these fights arent real btw, all this duel stuff is entertainment. it wouldn't be agood movie when the fight ends in 3 moves. i betcha ray park could kick your ass though

Movies don't have nearly enough quicksand these days. When I was a kid, nearly every cartoon i can remember had the characters in danger of sinking into quicksand on a fairly regular basis. Its like it just disappeared from the face of the earth.

I don't like this quicksand. It's coarse, and hot, and burning, and it gets everywhere.