VanillaZinger Wrote:
You're right, and it's also going to make Luke's meeting the Emperor much more ominous. When ROTJ came out, it wasn't until Luke threw down his saber and the Emperor gave him the lightning smackdown did we realize how butch Palpatine was, and why Yoda gave Luke such a specific warning. After ROTS, though, we'll know exactly how deadly the Emperor is. Luke rushing into those jaws of death is going to look like suicide - or more specifically, almost as foolhardy and ignorant of the danger as Anakin was.

Indeed. When Luke throws away his lightsaber, the audience will be pleading him not too.

Hope to see Liam too... Hey is it me... or does it seem sometimes that the Jedi are made to look pretty weak? Like Yoda not being able to beat his apprentice Dooku easily.... Or in this movie... Obi Wan apparently gets 'knocked' out by Dooku.. and then beating Anakin in the end?.. Yoda losing to Sidious? Maul beating Qui Gon and then padawan anakin beating a Sith Lord... Master Obi Wan having trouble beating a bounty hunter etc... I hope that Yoda Vs Sidious is a tie and that he needs to escape due to numbers and I hope Obi Wan doesn't get knocked out by Dooku for some silly reason so that Anakin can beat him...

I guess we can look it as "they were having a bad day"... but I guess it would be cool to have some sort of fluid heirarchy of who is the most powerful... yeah I know the emporer is... but Jedi I mean...

TooChilled, I would agree with everything you just wrote if Qui-Gon had not tested Anakin for midichlorians. By doing so, he showed that he does not trust his gut, his connection with the Living Force. Rather than meditate on it, he simply did a blood test. That is no better than the tests the Council used. It shows a lack of trust in the will of the Force.

You say the Council does not trust him - Qui-Gon does not trust himself, so why should they?

The big hindsight addition to all of this is that, had Qui-Gon been more perceptive, he may have seen what Anakin would become and not defied the Council on their decision. He may never have brought him to the Council to begin with. It remains to be seen how RotS plays out but I still have only seen reasons why Anakin should never have been trained as a Jedi.

Dogg.

Over at TFN Tern's posted about the secret to retaining your identity, saying that it's crap, worst part of SW and worst part of ROTS. ANyone heard anything else on this cos this would be a major fuck up if true

Agreed. Nevertheless, if you choose to read something into the Jedi's test, Qui-Gon's own test can't be discarded. He is the only person ever in the movies so far to use scientific methods to measure the Force. It does not back up the idea that he was better connected to the Living Force.

Dogg.

"Finding him was the will of the Force, there can be no doubt of that"

If what you say were to be the case, then was what happened in TPM merely a coincidence? What are the odds of them landing on that planet, at that time, and walking into that junk shop? Was it just some freak accident that Qui-Gon stumbled accross the Chosen One and should have known intuitively through the Force to let him be?

You seem to be saying that the answers are yes, very slim, and yes. That doesn't sit right with me.

That's one way to look at it, but I had always taken it as Qui-Gon simply jumping through red tape, so to speak. He knew that it would be hard to even get Anakin before the council, let alone secure their blessings that he should be trained. I saw this scene as him simply gathering the hard proof they'd require before going before them. He was playing their game - not his.

i really think what a lot of people forget here is that that palps would have become the emperor regardless of what anikan had become - he was already powerful enough and had enough control over the galaxies politics to do so... vader was simply a move forward. (imo)

Nah, RougueSix I don't buy that. Had he done it later then maybe. But he felt something with Anakin that aroused his curiosity - personally I think it is clear at that part of the movie that he did the test to prove something for himself, not the council. He does it very much in a 'what have we here' sort of way, rather than a 'I'll need this later to back me up' way. That's just how I read it.

As for your post, fuckface (how can I write that without it sounding insulting?), I believe Qui-Gon that finding him was the will of the Force. But, seeing the damage that it did, I'm just not convinced that training him at that point in time was the will of the Force.

Oh, and I agree with Nomad, Palpatine would have become Emperor anyway but that doesn't (for me) minimise that effect of the damage Anakin himself caused.

Dogg.

Haha, no worries Dogg Thang, that's why my name is funny.

This whole idea of the "will of the Force" is actually starting to blow my mind. You could say that Qui-Gon was "wrong" in deciding to take away Anakin, and that's cool. But the fact remains that Anakin made the wrong choice when he turned to the Dark Side. So what does that mean? Anakin would have made the right choice under better circumstances? That's a major issue. If some orphaned juvenile delinquent grows up and becomes a murderer, it’s actually quite easy to say that had he been brought up in a nice home with a loving family he would have never become that. It could very well be true. It’s this idea of multiple fates that’s blowing my mind, because if users of the Force can see the future, and the Force has a will, does that mean that the Force ‘knows’ the future? If that’s the case then the Force knew what everyone’s decisions would be and the only part it intervened in was the creation of Anakin. I guess what I’m saying is, it doesn’t matter if Qui-Gon or the Jedi are ‘wrong’ because the Force seems to be able to look after itself. “There’s no mystical energy field controlling my destiny” indeed!

Dogg- I have to agree with rouge six on the red tape thing. I had always
takin' it that way since my first viewing of TPM. Maybe now I see as being in the minority but I thought that is waht everyone thought.

I think we will see that Qui-Gon was right on only certain aspects of his beliefs in the living force. Instead of listening to eachother using their talents as one, the council sought to keep Qui-Gon on the what they considered the straight & narrow. All the while he was defying them & their decisions. In this state of discord its easy to see how Palps could be among them secretly being a Sith lord & using the darkside to cloud their vision.

Also as to the earlier post about Obi being weak when taking on Jango,
he wasnt fighting him to kill him. In the scene before Yoda instructs Obi via hologram to capture Jango & bring him back to Coruscant so the council members could question him.