Wasn't this thread about Anakin betraying someone or something? With all of this bullshit in the middle, it gets really confusing.

*my vote is to continue this conversation in a new thread so the info can be kept separate from the bitchfest. I'm not happy about the pace of the release of this info either but

Fatboy stop being a prick. I like you because of the character that you are; the antithesis of any and all. But for christ's sake stop pissing in the rum at the party. In lamen's terms or street terminology; stop playa-hatin' dog.

Let these people run their site the way they see fit. Let them drip, dribble, pour, or soak us with spoilers. It's their perogative. It's their site and quite frankly I'm surprised you haven't been given the boot yet and I wouldn't doubt that if you keep kickin' up useless dust that they will eventually say to hell with you and not take your shit any more.

Here's the bottom line: we all have information that we're not going to share out in the open until the time is right. Whether it's a picture, actual video, a line of dialogue or the entire script or novel.

If you jeopardize anything, meaning relationships here at MF between sources and such, because of your whining you won't be accepted or liked. Currently you're pushing it. So chill, play nice. Ok? I honestly don't want to see you go just like I don't want to see you fuck shit up for the rest of us. But if these people, and by that I mean sources, think MF is a bastion of whining bastards not unlike the JC, they'll cut their ties and MF won't be the place that it is right now. It'll end up like the JC and TFN, a place where spoilers once flourished but now is a shell of its former self.

I don't want that. Do you?

Dude FR is not against the spoilers. He wants spoilers. But this shit where you do nothing but snippet tiny bits of things u know more about but hold back on for stupid reasons of your own. If your gonna post shit that you have more of but cant because of real reason like spoileriffic than do your posts, dont make a big deal with shit loads of follow up teaser posts showing you know more than you posted. WTF is that bullshit. Its like "heres a bone doggy, mind if i dangle the steak infront of you?" its total mind games even if you, tern, dont want to realize it. This place always been a source of reliable spoilers, and with very little jerking around. Is it becoming the source of reliable jerking around and very little spoilers? Only time can tell but i hope not. And dont hide behind stuff like it not being legal to post scripts or novels or something. Whatever you got its not like it cant be circulated on the net. Scripts have been leaked for movies before, even if this site is usable as a primary source (ie it would get shut down) you could leak it elsewhere. It just sounds like copping out if someone has all the answers and they leak it in spurts like some kind of publicist. Oh wait, maybe this is all coming from Lucas people to drum up shit for the movie. At this point i dont know jack shit about whats going on, but i know this: this stuff seems very UNmillenniumfalcon.com-like and very TFN-like.

In 3 and a half months we'll know everything via books and script. Yay for Father Time.

Fatboy, you say I wrecked E-X. So I left - which you said was the best thing because I turned it into TFN.

So DP and I start up this site doing everything you despised that I did at E-X.

Now you come here and start whinging... leave dude. Find another site, get your own spoilers, and do it your way there.

Simple.

That's a British/Australian spelling. We are international here.

The speed of the spoilers is definitely not the problem. To be honest, I don't even want the script. I'd be perfectly happy not learning a single new thing from now to May because this time around I want to be at least sorta surprised. And I like that I don't have all the dialogue sitting in front of me to memorize so on opening night I can quote as it goes. That, in a way, ruined my AOTC experience.

No, the problem isn't the speed. It's the method. Whatever Tern has, be in the novelization, the script, a video, I DON'T WANT IT. At least, not in their entirety. I'm perfectly happy reading short summaries like these recent Hardcopy reports. But if he does have it all, I'd much rather him drop it all (regardless of my personal feelings towards reading it) then to treat us like inferiors. Most of the posters on this site have been around this scene for years (I can't believe I just passed 4 years... where does the time go?!), have made friends with each other, have known each other. I would like to think that if information fell in someone's lap they'd say "hey friends, check out what I got!" and not "Anakin does something evil. Discuss." But, even though dp says that these reports are coming in without their control from HC, meaning that they DON'T have a lot of info to drop, that "Discuss." attitude still seems to be there. Which seems even worse. "I don't really have anything but I'm gonna pretend I do."

However, I can't do anything more than post my opinion on the matter, and I'm sure that doesn't matter too much. So. Moving on.

Get over the Anti-JC obsession.

It's simply a matter of not stepping on toes and pissing off the people that gave you the shit in the first place by putting it all out in the open just to please people.

Fatboy, out of all the people here, should know what that's like since he's been around the Star Wars online thing for a while. Hypothetically, if I had some good Ep3 stuff and secretly gave it to Fatboy with condition that he not spread it around and he ends up doing just that- would I have a right to be mad? Would I trust Fatboy in the future with any more stuff? What if I told Fatboy that he could openly share the stuff any time after January 10th and he respects my wishes and waits. Well then we'd have a good relationship in terms of spoiler shite.

I've had people tell me they have this or that and they'll let me have it. Sometimes they come through sometimes they don't but I don't get mad. I'm like whatever, no rush, no pressure. Because it's all a chain. What Ternian posts, regardless of who is the source, it's Ternian's stuff. Whether he's the mouth, the eye, the hand or whatever, it goes through him. Just like if I gave Fatboy some stuff I would be the source. You want to try and find Hardcopy or the source of my stuff? Go for it and good luck.

I understand your grievance, Fatboy but the way I see it you're shooting the messenger because

a) they don't have what you want or

b) they won't divulge what you want or

c) you simply have some beef with Tern

Speaking only for myself, the HC reports were good. I appreciate them, but this vague stuff I no longer have the energy to deal with:

"Anakin betrays Sidious" then... "Anakin betrays Sidious" then... "Yes, let's get this straight. Vader/Anakin betrays Sidious"

Please try to not be too vague or confusing. It's a judgment call, of course, but if we all seem to be clueless about a particular remark, please try to add more for clarification.

Funny that the TFN thread has turned into the same debate we're having here.

I won't rehash the arguments in the previous posts. Leave the guessing games and vague statements to TFN. I thought MF wasn't about that bullshit.

Maybe HardCopy told T to start a thread consisting of only "Anakin betrays Sidious" as part of their "agreement." Maybe that's why T went on TFN and posted this in response to another post:



There is clearly some spoiler hoarding going on here. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. If I am, I apologize T.

Funny, I thought people here were above that kind of condescending "I know what´s best for you" bullshit that Josh Griffin was pulling.

Nobody is forcing anyone to post their deepest thoughts or heartfelt feelings about the way we disseminate information for no cost about a film we all want to know about. You don't get to place requests or provide feedback. I agree with some points, dribbling spoilers shits me up the wall but when it's all we've got to give at least all of you get it too. So now that everyone has had their rants.....

The spoiler is: Anakin betrays Sidious.

Talk about it or get the fuck out.

phew

ok, you implied a couple of posts back that, given what you know of what goes down, you'd hesitate to call Anakin's act betrayal. would you care to elaborate? if it is reminiscent of what Vader tries to tell Luke to get him to join him in ridding the GFFA of Sidious in ESB, or of what Dooku tried to do with Obi in AOTC, then i can see where you are coming from.

i mean, Sith are into that Machiavellian shit. so it isn't too much of a stretch to figure Anakin would be trying to bump Sidious off, or set him up. then he fights Kenobi, miscalculates, loses, gets a severe power-downgrade, can no longer hope to take Sidious alone and basically has to wait till Luke comes around to do it.

Anakin/Vader betrays Sidious in Episode 6, by hurling his electric ass down the DS shaft. If he betrays him earlier, like in Episode 3, well then I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

If the rumours of Anakin dropping himself to lava (instead of being rescued by Obi-Wan) are true, then this could be the "betrayal".

Sidious has expected Anakin to be healthy and fit follower, not a Frankensteinian zombie kept alive by a combination of Dark Side and iron lung. That is why Palpidious is so keen to have Luke kill the Chosen One - an apprentice that is actually alive is a better long-term investment for him. Assuming that the Sith can prolong life only for a limited time, not forever, an apprentice who can still produce Force-sensitive offspring is a valuable asset, considering that most of the Force-sensitive people have been exterminated for good.

Don't forget this one:

I'm kinda wondering about the saber thing all together. I'm hoping it has nothing to do with the betrayal, because I hope they keep a level of teenage bitchy angst in Anakin that keeps him from seeing the bigger picture at all.

I'm not looking forward to a "touching moment" when Anakin says, "hey Obi, if I have a son, give him this. I want him to have it."

I'm hoping there's a conversation between Yoda and Obi, where Yoda says, "Lookie here, the only hope we've got is to make this kid a jedi. Hang on to that lightsaber."

While either scenario is kinda silly, the second is more comfortable to me for some reason.

I keep thinking about what Pablo said in a set diary a long tme ago about more being tied up than he would've liked.

I'm hoping that every piece of dialogue isn't a reference to something in ep4.

Rumor has it that the Opera is actually about a farmboy who has to finish his chores before wasting time with his friends.

I don't think there's gonna be anything like that. I remember in one of the early Making Of vids, George said about Luke's saber "so this is the one that Obi-Wan takes with him after their fight." Granted, that statement in and of itself doesn't mean that Anakin doesn't give it to him, but it doesn't sound that way. I'm pretty sure the importance of the lightsaber is being set up in this way on purpose. Obi-Wan lecturing Anakin about it in AOTC. "Obi-Wan is gonna kill me" when his saber is cut in half. And then in ROTS the bastardization of the lightsaber by Grievous showing how dangerous they are in the wrong hands (besides Sith, of course).

My feeling is that Anakin is gonna lose some limbs (which I think is a given) including the one his lightsaber is in. After the fight is over and Anakin is toast, Obi-Wan is gonna take it. Probably for sentimental reasons, possibly to keep it out of the wrong hands. As for a moment of Yoda or Obi-Wan mentioning that they'll be giving it to Luke later on, I don't think we need it. Ever since we found out that Vader was Anakin we've assumed that Obi-Wan just told his own point of view truths to Luke. I don't see why "your father wanted you to have this" can't be the same.

And hell, if Anakin offers to make Padme Empress to his Emperor and kill Palps (betrayal??), saying they can raise a ruling family, that could certainly be CONSTRUED as him wanting his son to have a lightsaber.

There are many different ways this could go down, and as others have said, not EVERYTHING needs to be spelled out. We can connect some dots in our own heads.

Hmmm.... betrays before the duel. and it gets worse.
If i take this literally that would mean Anakins betrayal of Sidious would either involve Obi Wan Kenobi or Padme Amidala.

Now... logically it is far more likely that he would be willing to betray his Sith Master for the women he loves rather than his old mentor and friend.

My stab is as follows:

Padme (along with Obi Wan no doubt) pleads with Anakin to leave Sidious, but Anakin makes a counter offer that once he has the power to save her he will get rid of his Sith Master.

Then she refuses, he goes apes**t at her rejection and throws her across the room and Obi Wan steps in.

Anyway, got some sympathy with FB's arguments, if you have something let us know properly - dont leave us dangling on the edge of the cliff.

Yeah, I've been rolling it around in my head and it does seem to resolve to something like this: Anakin intends to serve Sidious long enough to learn the secret of cheating death. At that point he and Padme are guaranteed not to die (or whatever the Plagueis secret does). Then he'll bump off Sidious, fulfilling his destiny as the Chosen One. From there he can restart the Jedi/Sith/whatever order - this time neither decadent nor corrupted - with his son/daughter as the star pupil/apprentice. (This explains Obi-Wan saying "your father wanted you to have this." And I doubt Obi-Wan takes the saber for sentimental reasons. I suspect he loses his own at the end of The Duel and has to take Anakin's for his own protection. Only later does he realize its value in Luke's hands.)

Of course this is the goal for which he is willing to do evil things. But when Obi-Wan fills Padme in on the gory details, she wants nothing to do with it. She tells him to abandon his plan or he's lost her. Since she and the child she carries are the reason he's turned evil in the first place, he's stuck. He gets royally pissed off, and the rest is history.

And that's how Luke redeems his father - by making Anakin's noble goals a reality - eliminating Sidious, restarting the Jedi order free from arrogance and ignorance of emotion, etc. Luke shows that Anakin's heart was in the right place, but his methods were utterly wrong.

Though Anakin must see the violent elimination of the Jedi order as a worthy goal, to participate so heavily in it. So he's not totally a hero taking Sidious for a ride. And presumably he approves of the Empire as well. The man's head is totally mixed up, careening somewhere between a sociopath and a megalomaniac.