Because you're not getting the choice. There was never any chance that you would. The version you want was last released on video nearly 10 years ago, and it ain't coming back. Why is that so hard to understand?

Don't get me wrong, though -- I don't see any point in trying to convince you, or the people who agree with you, of anything. I'm just hoping to convince the people who agree with me to stop keeping these idiotic threads alive.

It's not Lucas' fault some are too stubborn to believe the VHS "Last time to own the original versions ever!" advertising.

When will dipshits like you realize that it's already been "preserved" on VHS, laserdisc and the original celluloid? Just because you don't get to have a polished-up copy on DVD doesn't mean it's gone anywhere.

Gotta love this, too:



You do realize you'd be laughed off the face of the earth if you tried this "warning" in the real world, right?

But then, the real world doesn't sound like a place where you spend a lot of time.

I'm going to make this as clear as I possibly can:

I DON'T FUCKING CARE WHAT IMPACT THE FILMS HAD.

They're Lucas' films. He funded them and has the right to alter them. What he doesn't have the right to do is to take away your copies. Either show me the portion of his Star Wars contract that specified "You are contractually obliged to release the films on every home video format and in their original incarnations." Guess what? It's not there.

If you want to weep for Star Wars, go ahead. You can do it over your VHS tapes.

Because he likes Star Wars.

Because I like the movies -- no, I love the movies. But that doesn't change the fact that they're just movies.

Gee, would your hatred of the Hayden change have anything to do with making it difficult to watch the films, pretending the prequels don't exist?

I think you are remebering it better then it was.

ok, two points, first up, we may see further releases that include various cuts of the films at some point. Let's not forget that we weren't even going to get any version of the films at all on DVD untill episode 3 was finished. Everyone was moaning that they would take whatever they could get but Lucas was just being an arse by not releasing them.

If only he'd just release a bare bones version we'd all be happy, blah, blah, blah. And then they announce a great box set and the whingers start off again, and things like the Hayden change aren't going to make sense untill we've seen episode 3. Who knows, there could be a scene after Palpatine's rescue, when Anakin is still good and he wears the robes he's wearing at the end of ROTJ?

Discussion about differences of opinion with these movies is one thing, but when people start arguing over preference, it makes no sense, you're not going to convince anyone to change their mind by saysing, listen fuckhat, Lucas is obligated to release the originals because he swept up my childhood with these movies, and now he's just taking a big juicy shit on it all.

I understand and respect both opinions on this, I'd like to see the OT with improved Sabers, mattes, remastered sound and video, and corrected blast effects. ..and even a few corrected scenes if done right, Snootles dance number, McDermid Emperor...and have the option of turning off the new additions if I wish.

But these aren't my movies, so there are a couple options.

1.Bitch at Lucas in hopes he might include the originals with the 6 DVD box set.
2.Live with what he put out on DVD,
3.Buy a LD player and the Definitive Collection.
4.Edit your own version with the DVD and LD.
5.Or endlessly argue with people, hoping it will change their mind, or somehow satisfy your angst.
6.Live with VHS

I originally posted this earlier, but for some reason it never appeared. I've consumed a lot more alcohol since then, so bear with me

For me the original trilogy, and indeed the saga as a whole, can be interpreted as the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. This is the primary reason why I believe Shaw should have remained at the end of Jedi. By killing Palpatine and saving his son, Anakin renounced the dark side of the Force and was redeemed. It makes perfect sense for him to appear as an old man (even though he was only in his forties if you do the math) at the end of the film. Not only has the change to Hayden undermined this, but it's a terrible effort. The kid is not a particularly good actor, and his appearance doesn't gel with the others. Hell, in one shot he looks like a damn kiddie fiddler.

Now I've read the opinions of people who say it makes no sense for him to appear as a ghost because he's pretty much just a torso, but I have to ask, is Hayden's right arm mechanical in the new footage? For that argument to work, it would have to be.

At the end of the day I appreciate that these are Lucas' films, but just because he can do something, it doesn't mean he should. Adding completely redundant scenes like Jabba in Star Wars, or having Greedo shoot first to 'water down' Han's character really hurt the films (and there are plenty of other examples of things that should have just been left alone). No doubt this will open me up to vitriolic attacks from the people on here who profess to be ‘true’ fans of the trilogy (whatever that means), but these films are art, and as such they are open to criticism.

Come this October I will be twenty nine years of age, and Star Wars has been a huge part of my life since childhood (even during the years when, according to some members of this forum, no one was interested). While I welcome Lucas’ revised cuts of the film, I find his unwillingness to offer the original versions is disrespectful to those fans that have supported him over the years. I, for one, have respect for Spielberg, who offered people two versions of E.T. when it arrived on DVD. I’ve watched both versions of the film, and the original release remains the superior cut after more than twenty years. I’m not disrespecting those who prefer the added CGI E.T., the ‘hippy’ dialogue and walkie talkies, but at least they’ve made their choice after seeing both versions.

I’m sure the debate will rage on, unfortunately resulting in much name calling and sniping, but in spite of all the changes I am genuinely looking forward to this set. Sure there are problems. But the good far outweighs the bad when considering the job Lowrey has done with the transfers (my bootlegs of the original and SE releases are fairly poor). It appears that some members of the forum are intolerant of others’ views, whatever they may be, but that’s human nature. Hopefully this will change as more and more people get their hands on the set and experience the release for themselves. Personally I’m hoping DVDSoon get their stock and ship, well, soon, because I know of at least two other R1 retailers who have delivered sets to the UK already…

How did Obi-Wan get his outer robe and a new haircut as a ghost? If you wanna be a dick about it, Obi-Wan should've at least had no outer robe in ESB and ROTJ.

Isn't it funny that the some of the scenes that have been updated in 2004, i.e. ANH Jabba and the extra speeder scene in ANH, are scenes that were created and updated in 1997? You think if they did it once, they would have done it right the first time and been done with it. I just find it humorous.

True. It doesn't matter to me, I just think it's funny. It's like you got paid to do a job by Lucas in '97 and then your job was redone by you or someone else 7 years later and getting paid for it.

I remember them being rather self-satisfied and chuffed with the Jabba scene back in '97 (them sure were the days). They used 3DSMAX (I think, might have been Maya) to model Jabba and obviously gave the job to a cross-eyed intern (care in the community) of creating the Jabba model itself. At least we know what Jabba looks like to the visually impared people.

Some of you more savvy folks might have noticed that it still looks a bit crap. That's cause Jabba was a fat arsed bloke in the original footage and Han has to interact and pass behind this fat bloke at some point. For all those complaining - how would Han pass behind Jabba without stepping on his tail? How could a mass the size of ROTJ Jabba be inserted without Han walking 'through' Jabba? No amount of SFX and "virtual acting" will change Harrison Fords 1976 eye line and therefore no amount of cutting and pasting will work. In theory Ford can only ever be a few feet away from the fat guy.

This may be the best post on these boards thus far.

I may not agree with all of it, but it was well done.

Make the original versions of Star Wars available to those that want it. Don't alter anything. Clean it, transfer it to DVD and put it out there in limited numbers for anyone that desires them.

I don't dispute Lucas' right to revisit his films, I simply wish that he would offer the original additions to sit alongside his new vision. I actually thought I was being fairly posistive towards the 2004 ditions considering some of the comments that people have made about them. It's just that we have a choice when it comes to films such as LOTR, E.T. etc, and I would like that choice with Star Wars. I do have copies of the original releases, but obviously the quality isn't what it could be.

Oh, and my comment about Hayden was intended to point out what a bad job they've done with inserting him into the film. If these constant changes are going to be made, can't they at least do them properly?

Personally I always thought the SEs were a test bed to see if they could create some of the digital stuff needed for TPM.

You bring up a good point.

This is where I think he should come to us. What I mean is that GL has the website with which he can communicate with us. Use it to its potential.

If I were him, I'd never run from the fanbase, I'd seek it out. Now that doesn't mean he should cater to us, but I do think it would be apt for him to know what were thinking in the sense that we are the "bread and butter."

He can set up a poll or do something to gauge whether those fans who want the original OT on DVD would be willing to wait a few years and get them as HD-DVDs or would simply be happy to get them as reg. DVDs.

All he needs to do is say: "One or the other, but you can't have both because I'm not doing it twice."

That's all. One gesture and it's done.

But Agent Smith does bring up a valid point in saying what's to stop him from further changes to the OT in the future as technology improves? Will he ever stop? Does it (OT) ever become a final product? Should it?

You and I have discussed this before here and at Ep. X. Personally, I think there has to be a point where he says enough.

We now know that these DVDs still have some minor problems. Some lightsaber shots, Han's reflection in ROTJ, etc. Will they get worked on again or will the only change for the OT in the future come in the form of a HD-DVD disc?

See, I don't know. And to be honest, I'd probably be crazy to even venture a guess.

Yup, that about sums it up.

And then twenty years later when he makes the prequels said young actor wouldn't have aged twenty years and will be primed and ready to play Anakin? Great logic...

The spirit has no physical form, that's the point! Anakin could have appeared as a one armed Chilean hooker if it had suited his fancy. He's a ghost! When was the last time you cornered a ghost and interrogated it about how it looked when it died?

I posted this in a similar thread in the EIII forum but it could be that maybe the Force ghost shows the residual image of the Jedi when they last knew the "light side" of the Force. It could be that there's something in Ep3, an explanation or something, that effects the way Force ghosts happen in the rest of the films.

What I'm saying is, maybe there's something we haven't seen yet that would be out of place if Hayden weren't inserted into RotJ. Someone said there isn't a valid explanation...well maybe there isn't. Not yet.