They have the audio portion of Steve Sansweet's presention from Comic-Con up on Hyperspace right now. Here is what Steve said about the OUT DVD sets especially with the OUT's themselves... I don't know if this will mean much to anyone here but hey I thought I'd post it...


Steve Sansweet @ ComicCon2006 said:

I know there's been a lot of online controversy about format issues with the bonus discs, which were taken directly from the master tapes of our best laser disc release of the Original Trilogy. Some folks are a little concerned because the bonus discs are not anamorphic, or in layman's terms basically there are these really small black lines still visible on the screen.

But I can't emphasize enough how much that is a non-issue. I mean these bars are so small teeny tiny that I guarantee you won't even realise they're on the screen and here's the proof...

<JOKE VIDEO CLIP PLAYED>

...Uh, as I was saying um the transfers from the bonus discs are absolutely incredible because these are pristine master tapes and I never seen despite what you may have heard in internet rumors a better transfer of a movie...

<JOKE VIDEO CLIP PLAYED>

...Okay now that I've shown you a few fans worst nightmares, I'm done messing with you. So here's what you really have to look forward to in the way you really remembered it being:

<HAN SHOT FIRST VIDEO CLIP PLAYED>

Now you maybe thinking that didn't look to bad and you know you're right, because these are the same versions that appeared on the versions of the definitive collection laser disc set and a lot of work went into them to make them look really good.

The intropositive used to make the original prints was used and each film was color corrected scene by scene using artistic judgement and computer processes. There was a frame by frame digital video correction and the video and print noise were reduced dramatically. So I think you're really gonna like the special versions the original edition.

Funny stuff. From what I understand, this part of the presentation didn't go down so well.

Quint over at AICN had a good point regarding the marketing of these DVDs. LFL says, "Oh, they're for the casual fan, who hasn't picked up either box set.'

Yeah...

So that's why you're hyping the OOT in all you marketing materials. Hoping to squeeze every last penny out of the SW base? It really stinks. Marketing is ruining everythng and that's very sad.

(I'm still pissed that they left of a couple of the web docs from the ROTS DVD to make room for a video game.)

The big announcement on starwars.com was "This September: Original Unaltered Trilogy On DVD", not "This September: Individual Star Wars Trilogy Films On DVD".

Exactly! They can't have it both ways.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23941

Quint @ SDCC:

ORIGINAL TRILOGY DVDS

Sansweet also talked about the upcoming DVD release of the OT, going so far as to hand out buttons that say "Han Shoots First , September 12th 2006". I won't go on a geek rant, but he did confirm that the original theatrical editions won't be anamorphic, but from the best material they had (the 1993 laserdisc master videos). He went on to say that the movies are being released for the majority of people out there who don't care which edition they get, but don't want to buy the box set, which just pisses me off. The laserdisc masters are almost 15 years old. God knows the video technology looks the same, eh?

And as for them being made for the average fan, not us apparently small minority that prefers Lucas' "historical archive" versions, that doesn't wash. Every ad is about them releasing the original film without the special edition elements. Every standee in Suncoast video is taking preorders for the "original cut" releases, not the "Special Editions with a special feature edition." That's what they're selling, but they won't clean them up? It's like Lucas is too embarrassed to put out the originals, but not embarrassed to take the money for them.

They showed some examples straight from the DVD and the film looks exactly like those bootlegs out there of the laserdiscs. A little washed out, pixelated and strobey. Goddamnit, is it too much to ask for the originals restored properly? (And I'll say this again, since some people didn't seem to grasp it last time I made this point... restoration is different than the special editions. I'm not picking and choosing what I want.

Look at the beautiful restorations on the WIZARD OF OZ discs. They didn't add anything, but they cleaned up the print and made it as vibrant and clear as it was in theaters in the late '30s. When we went to see the original 3 films they were vibrant, not washed out or pixelated.) These "workprints" made Lucas a billionaire. Why is it so hard to offer up the option of having a good, stable version for the fans to pick between?

Sorry, back from the rant. Won't slip again. Too busy. So much coolness up ahead. Watch for it, squirts!

-Quint

Once and for all:

Lucas wont release the original cuts on their own as a primary selling point (markering or quality wise), because it would interfere with all licensing regulations and contracts that were renewed and agreed upon at the time of the Special Editions world wide release.

Since all his original licensing deals that were made in the 1980:ies were about to expire around 1996, Lucas HAD to do dramatic alterations to the Star Wars movies in order to surcumvent the legal restrictions that prohibited him from extending the existing original licensing contracts, and sign new ones connected to the new editions. If Lucas had not made the cuts and changes and had not released the Special Editions as SEPARATE EDITIONS (disconnected from the originals), he would have lost all income from merchendise since those original contracts -- according to law -- would evaporate. As we all know, Lucas primary money flow stems from merchendise.

It's all legal. And it's all about money to sustain a privat company.

That's not the issue.

The issue is shoddy treatment given to the OUT on these new DVD releases.

And while I am not so cynical to think that merchandising rights were the ENTiRE reason for the renewed STAR WARS push in the mid to late '90s, business is business.

My point was that Lucas will not focus attention or recources on original cut releases, neither pr or quality wise, since that would put his present licencing contracts in jeopardy. By releasing them as bonus features and in unprententious non-state-of-the-art presentations he his practically manouvering in the terrain his licencing partners has laid out.

Here's another review of Sansweet's presentation:

http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12232.msg247330#msg247330

Jared @ Jedidefender.com wrote:

I was at the Sansweet Star Wars presentation is SDCC yesterday afternoon and saw the DVD footage. When I got home this evening I was surprised that there hadn’t been posts from others in attendance, as the statements regarding the DVD release and the image quality of the footage shown was outrageous, to put it lightly.

Sansweet began his presentation by rolling the opening credits to Star Wars with the reinstated pre-ANH crawl. White ringing, that resembled edge enhancement, could clearly be seen on the inside edges of the yellow text during the crawl, though overall the image was very clean. The footage was shown on four front projectors throughout the room.

After this footage is where Sansweet addressed the complaints about the lack of anamorphic enhancement. Alarm bells started ringing for me when he assured the audience that “the black bars are still there, but are very, very small and hardly noticeable… not even an issue” or something along those lines. It seemed as though Sansweet did not grasp the fundamentals of 16:9 encoding on DVD, contorting the complaint into meaning that a group of internet users were upset that the movies were not being presented in a 16:9 framed image, instead of the correct concern that the discs are not anamorphically enhanced versions of the films that retain their correct 2:35:1 composition.

The next statement that Sansweet made was about the versions presented as being from “the highest quality laserdisc masters made, digitally restored frame by frame,” and that, “these movies look fantastic”. Which of course is true, fine and dandy if not for the fact that video technology has made leaps and bounds beyond the intended purpose of that “restoration”. Those technicalities were obviously not explored.

The jokey bits about the NASA-esque footage and windowboxed teeny-tiny footage was intermixed with the hard sell.

Then, the real deal was shown. The cantina scene with Han shooting Greedo first was shown and received a huge round of cheers when Han, did, as they are pushing so hard and handing out buttons to state, shoot first. But, oh boy, was there something wrong with what was on screen. Please set aside the issue of the loss of image resolution that the 4:3 letterboxed discs, as what was seen on screen was far more concerning:

Deinterlacing artifacts were visible throughout the clip, showing as horizontal combing in every bit of motion and in every shot transition. Speaking with my friends that I attended with, they all saw it clear as day as well. Not good. I’m rather lousy at understanding IVTC, but what I saw on screen was not acceptable.

I was rather startled at the dismissive attitude from Steve Sansweet towards the informed concerns highlighted from forum users and industry professionals, and the calculated assurances that he made about the supposed quality of the sources used for this project. His final comments on the issue were basically along the lines of “George considers these versions dead to him, so you should be grateful you’re getting them at all.”

I was very disappointed in his stance and seeming ignorance towards the real issues with the DVD release, and to wave away legitimate quality issues as the ravings of an over-demanding fan base was frankly startling. I’m a huge Star Wars fan and am interested in the preservation of the original versions of these movies for posterity, and yesterday’s presentation left me with the impression that such a goal is not in any way shared by Lucasfilm. Unfortunate.

I’ve attempted to recount the experience as accurately as possible, but it’s been a long trip and I’m sure I’ve missed details. If there are any omissions or inaccuracies, hopefully some other members can share, correct, and confirm what they saw as well.

From that and the HS audio, it sounds like they're trying to shrug off the quality and anamorphic issues and say that "it doesn't matter because these are the originals!" It's sad really to hear him trying to hype up the "restoration" that went into the '93 Definitive Collection LDs because it was really a poor job by today's standards. For one, the color correction is off from the original theatrical prints (way off in some scenes like R2 in the canyon). And second, the "frame by frame digital video correction " Sansweet talks about was actually a very poorly designed digital process that greatly reduces detail and leaves ghosting streaks in virtually any shot with motion.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about: This is a comparison of a single frame from ANH from three different releases. This is a shot panning up from R2 right after he is shot and falls to the ground.

This first frame is from the 2004 DVD. Notice the level of detail and the overall quality. Despite it's color flaws (saturation issues, crushed blacks, etc.), we're treated to the best home version of the films Lucasfilm has to offer.

This frame comes from the Japanese Special Collection laserdisc set from 1986. This was before any of the THX "improvements" and "restoration" was done to the film. The prints were also in a lot better shape than they were in 1993. Look at the detail and how much different the colors are compared to the 2004 DVD. (This whole scene was darkened during the '93 color correction process and all later releases followed.) Pretty damn good for a laserdisc, right?

And finally, this abomination of a release. This is from the 1993 Definitive Collection laserdisc - the same version we're getting on DVD. The THX digital noise reduction process used to clean up the video was a temporal filter that was horribly ineffective on motion shots (or too effective, depending on how you look at it). What you're seeing here is the ghosting around the jawas and most of the detail in the rocks diminished because of the noise filter. Horrible to say the least.

All in all, the Definitive Collection LD release wasn't really that bad. Any high contrast motion shots look like my example above. But for the most part the video is pretty clean and the color, although not like the original, is pretty good. The Japanese Special Collection LDs suffer from a lot of video noise, most of which is not found in the Definitives. It's just too bad that this is the best wer're going to see the original versions of Star Wars from an official release for a long time - if we ever see them released again.

Zion, after seeing that comparison, I am even more pissed about the OUT DVD than I was before.

Lightivity, somehow I think George's decisions are based upon more than mere licensing issues. He still has his megalomaniacal ego to consider. (j/k)

Concerning Sansweet's Comic-Con presentation, did anyone notice a certain amount of resentment on his part towards the fans? Steve's always seemed like an unhappy person (to me anyway). His hostility towards the fans really seems to show it self during his presentation and the following Q&A.

The StarWars.com $40 a year members area was on the ball for once and had everything presented from ComicCon 2006's "Star Wars Day" online within hours.

Listening to Sansweet's "Star Wars Spectactacular", which was more like Star Wars Un-Spectactular, was unreal. The opening fanfare was played before Sansweet started and it came off like Steve was a WWE wrestling superstar with intro music.

There was all sorts of drama between Steve Sansweet and MF when Sithclan and us posted those hi-resolution promo images. It's also my understanding suspect Sansweet was involved in Lucasfilm taking my dp.com domain away from back on 2002 for leaking the AOTC visual dictionary. (scroll down and check the Regisrant data)

Since Ghent is leaving Starwars.com, in addition to several other high profile departures (related to the movies being over), wonder how long Steve has.

bah! No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. I never understood why SW fans complain so much... "Oh I hate LFL because they won't put out the OOT on DVD" "Oh I hate LFL because they put out the OOT on DVD"

They listened to what people wanted and put it out, yet still people bitch about it.

You've missed the point.

I don't hate LFL at all. Quite the contrary.

But I do have a problem with their marketing. Marketing in the entertainment industry as a whole is out of control.

I am also one who will defend Lucas and his decisions to anyone. But you make a good point about marketing. It almost seems like the marketing of movies is secondary to the movie itself.

Try walking around Wal-Mart or Target and count the number of POTC or Superman items you see. Now, the ROTS stuff out last year was comparable, and because I'm such a fan of the franchise, it doesn't stick out to me as much. But it just feels to me like, the studios place a greater emphasis on the marketing and products of a film compared to the film itself.

I saw where POTC has already made $350 million in 17 days of release. If I were a studio marketing executive, I'd be pimping the hell out of that. It's a great achievement. But instead, all I see and read about are Jack Sparrow M&Ms.

The other aspect of marketing that plays into this is the commercials you see before a movie starts in the theater. It's sickening to me, and a big reason why I haven't spent one cent in a theater this year. I am already paying twice as much for a ticket now as when I saw "Species" in 1995. Pop and food has also doubled in price in the past 10 years, then the studios have the nerve to show 10 minutes of commercials? Sorry I'll spend my money elsewhere.

The commercial stuff varies from theater to theater. There's a dinner theater place across the street from me which shows maybe 10 minutes of trailers and then straight into the movie. None of that crappy EPK "behind the scenes of a movie coming soon" crap, no Sprite commercials, just trailers and the movie. I patronize the hell out of the place for that reason (the cute waitresses don't hurt either).

The problem I have is that I can see the reasoning behind both sides of the argument here, and they are never going to find common ground.
so it just descends into hyperbole vs hyperbole.

I think everyone who was quite happy to watch their VHS copies, rather than rush out and buy the laserdisc versions at any point during the late-80s to early-90s should be removed from the equation.
I don't see how you have a right to complain, really. It obviously didn't bother you having an "inferior quality" version of the films back in the day, I don't see why it's suddenly a matter of life or death now.

Right, whoever's left, get moaning - It's you vs Lucasfilm.


Good luck...

... you're gonna need it.

:P

Exactly Treadwell, you hit it right on the nose.

While I to do understand where everyone is coming from from both sides it's just silly as hell to be arguing about a set of movies for 30 freaking years. They're just movies people...not something that's a part of our daily lives and to get all up in arms or 'boycotting' Lucasfilm or saying you're no longer a fan of Star Wars because of this. Yes I've seen posts of people saying they're no longer a Star Wars fan because of this latest release.

I thought we were adults here people...not kids.

All I am saying it's just stupid for a group of people to have been whining and complaining about something like this for 30 freaking years...

And the fact that most of these people are actually having problems realizing that their behavior is not sane, is even more freightening.

So, you're generalizing a group of people that prefer the classic versions of Star Wars, Empire and Jedi and, logically, would like to see them presented well on DVD because...what, some fanatics on originaltrilogy.com or something? Contrary to the opinion of Lucas gushers/apologists, it isn't a fucking crime to prefer one thing over the other, or to expect a quality product from George "THX" Lucas. In terms of the SE's, added effects and changed scenes just didn't do it for some people. Not a difficult concept to grasp. Unfortunately, if someone were to step up and say, "You know, I kinda like the old versions better", fuckass Lucas lovers immediately begin with the ridiculous "It's George's movie, not your's. He can do what he wants you fucking whiners!!1 Greedo was always supposed to shoot!!" bullshit. Blah fucking blah.

To be blunt, these aren't good DVDs. Also, not a difficult concept to grasp. What isn't sane is that people will actually waste money on these things, which are essentially poor 1993 Laserdiscs slapped onto DVDs with absolutely no care whatsoever. Now that's a truly frightening thought. If you already have the first DVD set, why would you waste money on such a shitty product as the OUT discs, which are only slightly (unnoticeably?) better than pirated LD DVD transfers? Surely, it isn't because of the cover art. And for the record, nobody has been "whining and complaining" about this stuff for 30 years..?

Did you just say "fuckass"?

It is not sane to defend yourself with two thick paragraphs of rant filled with fuck and ass when the gist of my generalisation was founded on the basic and pretty understandable fact that Star Wars is a fantasy. There IS something wrong with those people that devote their time to scream and whine and call a filmmaker revisionist and asshole for years and years -- or paragraph after paragraph -- for the only goal of having a couple of seconds of film clips inserted into movie, when the real world is on political fire with thousands of people dying, presidents and dictators going bonkers and polar ice is about to melt. Is is not proportionate. Is is not sane.

If you apply your own logic, the same could be said of your post, or any of the other posts on these forums. What does any of it matter when people are dying and the world is going to hell? The simple answer is that people need distractions. Do you sit in a room all day contemplating the pointlessness of existence? No, didn’t think so.

If you think there's something wrong with people 'screaming and whining' about Lucas, fair enough, that's your prerogative. However, the 'screaming and whining' brigade makes up a small part of the audience. Even most of the people opposed to the changes are pretty intelligent about it. Lucas has done a lot more than add a 'few seconds', he's added minutes worth of footage that alters pacing, character arcs and more. These are hardly inconsequential changes to someone who enjoyed the original versions. It’s good that people are passionate about their favourite films, be they Star Wars or not.

I’m not a fan of a lot of the changes (although some of the cosmetic ones don’t bother me), but the thing that annoys me most about the situation is the way in which the films have been marketed. When they were released on DVD in 2004, they were marketed as the ‘original trilogy’, which they weren’t. Lucas went on record as saying that the ‘real’ originals would never see the light of day, yet less than two years later, here they are. However, this release is the most shameful yet, as it’s basically nothing more than a publicity stunt to shift new toys and games.

‘We have Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy coming out, so let’s rush out a ‘limited’ edition of the original films as a tie-in. We don’t have time to do a proper re-mastering job, so let’s just use the 93 Laserdisc masters, and when people complain we’ll just claim that they are ‘bonus features’ included with George’s true vision of the saga – a way to give something back to the fans who have begged for the release.’

Except it's not for the fans, so of course people feel pissed off. There’s been so much misinformation (that’s a nice way of putting it) about this release it’s staggering. Lucasfilm and their PR companies are desperately trying to put a positive spin on things now that the cat is out of the bag. Of course the advertising for these discs is totally focused on the ‘original trilogy’ part of the set, the very films that have been treated appallingly. If any other major (or minor for that matter) distributor released a non-anamorphic DVD with interlacing issues of such an important film there would be uproar, and rightly so. Quality is important. If it’s not, we should all go back to watching VHS (when we're not thinking about all the pain and suffering in the world, of course).

Just who is this release aimed at? The casual viewer won't give a toss about having the originals (and certainly won't buy the same thing twice), and the quality of the discs is too poor to please the purists...

To be fair, there's been as much message board over-expectation and hype as LFL "misinformation".
The pre-Special Edition OT is coming out on DVD, and that is all that was announced.
The only real grey area is regarding the 1977/ANH opening crawl.

I'd say the release is aimed at people who have been demanding an official release for the OOT on DVD since DVDs took off.

Again, that is why I can kind of see both sides of the argument, because on one hand, that is precisely what the public is getting - what they've been aksing for. And on the other hand, people like their 5.1 and anamorphic presentations - I know I do.
They were never promised that for this release, though.
It's still going to be the best quality officially released home version of a pre-1997 cut of the film to date. It's from the 1993 masters - I've heard some people talk as if it is actually going to be a laserdisc rip or something, which it just nonsense.

I don't see any point in fans being at each other's throats about it - it really does boil down to you either buy it or you don't.
Yeah - I know - thanks, Mr Obvious.
But I'm not going to lump people into this whole basher/gusher crap. I don't really see any reason to attack Lucas, or defend him either. I couldn't care less about what people think of him - he's bloody loaded anyway.

I'll probably buy these, I can afford it, and I'll look forward to the X0 transfers too...

I completely agree with you Treadwell.

It is stupid for the fans to be at each others throats over this whole issue. As you said it's up to the fan wether they choose to buy it or not. As Steve Sansweet said Lucasfilm isn't pulling anyone's arm and forcing them to buy this.

I to wouldn't mind it being anamorphic and in 5.1 but hey out of all the posts I've seen over the years regarding this and plus the petition on originaltrilogy.com no one has really ever specified that they wanted a suped up fully restored anamorphic widescreen version of the movies. Most people have said they just want them on DVD that is all.

Yes Lucasfilm are using the actual masters that were used to create the 93' laserdisc sets and this will definitely look better than anything out there on the bootleg market now.

I don't mind having both fanmade and offical versions. Just with the fanmade versions most of them I've had never worked properly for me. They would always start to become heavily pixelated at certain points then eventually lock up all together. It's almost as if the person who burned the movie didn't burn it properly.

If I can to I'll probably pick me up the set. By the way I to am looking forward to the XO-Project. I wouldn't mind seeing what Zion and his well I guess team have done for the OUT's.

my thought went unnoticed in the first thread pretty much...



BUT FINALLY SOMEONE SEES THE LIGHT AND IS NOT BEING AN IDIOT

You're forgetting that people have actually seen footage from the new DVDs and are saying that they're not much (if at all) better than the bootlegs of the Laserdisc releases.

And Treadwell, when I talk of misinformation, I refer tot he whole history of the release. We were told that these films didn't exist, and that the 2004 DVDs were his vision. Now they have some related products to promote they slap a crappy release together and stick it out there. Anamorphic enhancement has got nothing to with restoration either; it should be the standard way of transferring a widescreen film to DVD (along with progressive encoding). There's no reason these releases couldn't be anaomorphic - Christ, some of the bootlegs are.

You are also forgetting people at the Con saw them on large blown up screens so the clips themselves will be a bit distorted and not look as good as on a TV screen.

Edit: As far as some of the bootlegs being anamorphic...they're just fake anamorphic.

By that logic, you could argue that there's no reason why the OUTs shouldn't be "fake" anamorphic.

I think some people are putting way too much stock in these master tapes. They really aren't going to look that much better than the LDs themselves, or even the newer bootleg releases like the Citizen or Moth3r PAL transfers. Having slightly more detail will not make up for how bad these will look using the zoom feature on an HDTV. Unless you really love that blown-up macroblocking effect.

My point was that some of the bootleggers go to the trouble, so Lucasfilm should have made the effort. Why would the images be distorted on large screens? I'll give you the size thing, but there's no reason they should be distorted. In any event, the article said that footage from other DVDs looked good on those same screens, when the SW discs didn't. I hope they pull something out of the bag, but 'I have a bad feeling about this'...

I agree with what you are saying. The Moth3r transfer is really good, and I'm expecting great things of th X0 project - it looks great so far.

But by the same token, there are also too many people who have too much stock in it being "no better than a LD transfer". It is going to look better than any of the fan transfers to date, better than the laserdiscs and better than any VHS release.

Period.

You say "not that much better than a bootleg".

Hmm, I'd say probably better than "not that much better" myself.

But, yeah, fair enough.

It seems we agree that it is probably going to be the best-quality official release of these cuts to date. I'm not saying that alone is glowing endorsement enough to go out and buy it, I'm just playing devil's advocate regarding some of the "it's the end of the world" reactionary stuff this release is prompting.

It appears the Official Site will be world premiering the OUT DVD's. I'm not sure if there is anything to be premiering or if there is interest...

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iv/release/video/news20060818.html

Starting Next Week: Celebrate the Original Star Wars

August 18, 2006

September 12 is right around the corner -- it's the date that the Star Wars trilogy DVDs will be available as individual movies, each one packed with a bonus disc containing the original unaltered theatrical version of the classic film.

...

In anticipation of these releases, starwars.com is turning back the clock to focus on the original theatrical releases of the three classic Star Wars movies, with informative features that will help set the stage for these historic films. Read about what life was like in 1977, 1980, and 1983, and get ready for inside looks on the DVDs themselves.

It kicks off next week with coverage devoted to 1977's Star Wars, before it was known as A New Hope, and continues the following weeks with Empire and Jedi.

...