yeah I'm not sure what you mean either T?

I didn't mean it to sound like "I right, he's wrong." I really wish you'd give up the superiority complex Fatboy. I just meant that he didn't get what I meant (whether it is my fault or his or whatever).

Pablo replied that the Emperor didn't know that Padme was pregnant and implied I should know that from the OT. But from my memory, it was never mentioned in the OT that the Emporer didn't have any idea about Luke, Leia or Luke and Leia. It is quite clear from the PT that Palpatine looks into the future to manipulate people into his doings so it is very plausible to think that Palpatine has some idea about Luke or Leia from his probings.

Oh man this exchange between you guys is too fucking funny for a number of reasons. Number one being that Ternian, no disrespect, but you are assuming shit with Palpatine and the twins. Just let that go, bro. I mean you could mount a campaign about how Palpatine senses shit but there's no way to prove it unless it's on the screen or in a book. And even then you'd have that canon vs. EU bullshit.

Second, Fatboy, as much you would deny or hate the label, you my friend ARE a fan-boy. Simply for the fact that you're even bothing to debate this shit with Ternian. But it is entertaining. Again no disrespect intended because all you cats get love for being the old schoolers of this shit.

It's like that line in Road to Perdition: "Why are you always smiling?" "Because it's all so fucking hilarious."

Right on, bro.

SW geek banter = priceless!

We are all, to some varying degree, "sheep" in the true sense of the word.

Anyone who analyses shit to the degree we do goes beyond just being a "fan".

I'm bordering on fanbitch, myself.

The sinkhole stuff is reminding me of some stuff that was in the Databank when I was convinced that Naboo was Dagobah, that there were tunnels running throughout underneath. I wonder if that idea morphed into this planet somehow.

LOL. That sounds rather hypocritical to me, Fatboy...



Please explain...

Naboo is like a massive sponge. It confused the fuck out most people who thought Qui, Obi, and Binks literally travelled the entire interior in order to reach Theed, whereas they actually went nowhere near the "core" but thru interconnecting passages and tunnels which were very near the surface.

I'm thinking the sinkhole planet is like a massive golf ball or a piece of pumice, with huge craters enough to house an entire city.

Pabs updated again. Something I didn't expect: Grievous will be shown without his droid mask on at least once. Interesting.

You can have mine if you want.

This has been known for sometime Vanda. His mask cracks and his features are shown. Obi-Wan then bklows his guts out.

I knew about the gut blowing... somehow I missed the mask crackage. Ah well.

What could possibly be under there? I thought he’s just eyes and a brain?

I'm pretty sure there's a face, at least from the eyes to back over the forehead. I mean, that's probably the whole reason for the mask. Just that there's not much of him left except what's behind the faceplate.

That way Obi- Wan can see this thing twist up it's face writhing in agony right before it dies, maybe. Puts a "organic" spin on this killing machine. The whole Vader foreshadowing effect that GG was built for in two or three seconds.

I can't think of any reason for a face reveal other than it being someone we used to know...Like Qui-Gon or Maul. I know that's weak sheep shit, but I can't understand why they'd reveal his face, how he seems to be able to use the force.....All signs point to it.

Maybe, when Anakin gave in to his anger in AOTC, that's when the balance of the force went out of whack, and enabled Palpy to resurrect Qui-gon's midi filled body and make Grevious..This is why we heard Qui gon cry out at that time, and it's why the jedi have to start disappearing- so they don't become super powerful force zombies ala- General Grevious!

Wow, that's good stuff. I'm going to post it at TFN, have it locked, get called a loser and become frustrated.

Just cause he can wield lightsabers doesn't mean he's Force Sensitive. And hell, we don't even know yet if he NORMALLY wields lightsabers, or him pulling them out against Obi-Wan was a last ditch effort. After all, from the Making Of and the Marketing Footage, we can see that in the fight with Obi-Wan he's using the new lightsaber blocking weapon, not a lightsaber.

He's not Force Sensitive, and I'm fairly sure he doesn't usually use lightsabers as a weapon... they're just his sourvenirs. I'm sure Clone Wars 20 tonight will show differently, but it doesn't matter. It's just cartoon EU. Genndy has already taken enough creative license with the Jedi to show us that what we see in the cartoon in no way reflects what we have seen / will see in the movies.

You could be right, Vanda. I can't see how anyone or anything could hang with a Jedi in a saber fight without the force, but GL isn't exactly Mr. Consistent, so it's possible, I guess. If he doesn't have the force, though, any Jedi worth their salt could simply hurl him into the sky and smash him to bits. Again, I'm thinking logically here and that may not apply.

Heh, indeed.



Methinks your thoughts have been influenced by the Clone Wars cartoon, where the Jedi are made out as being able to block a million shots with one hand without breaking a sweat. We know from the movies that Jedi can't actually do that. And while we may have seen Qui-Gon hurl around some battle droids, they're ALL droid, and he wasn't in the heat of battle at the time (he had already put his saber away and was able to concentrate on it). If Grievous was attacking, be it with blasters or lightsabers, a Jedi wouldn't be able to concentrate enough to throw him around. Plus (and I could be mistaken - the memory's not what it used to be), we've never seen a Jedi throw an actual living thing around with the Force - only droids.

Anyway, long story short, the Clone Wars cartoon creators have taken WAY too much creative license, and they don't conform with the "reality" known from the movies.

I thought Maul force pushed Obi-Wan away?

Indeed. But Maul ain't no Jedi. That was all dark side.

Well, Yoda caught that thing Dooku dropped on Anakin and Obi. Grevious can't way that much...

Anyway , even the cartoon doesn't have him using the force, so that's that. Still seems to turn everything we ever learned about the Jedi's abilitiy to fight hand to hand on it's ear. And if it was possible to make a droid so fast and impervious, why'd they do the whole clone thing? I know Grevious is half organic, but the technology seems like it's there where they wouldn't need clones at all...

Not every Jedi is Yoda.



I don't know many non Force users that could hang with a Jedi in lightsaber battle like that.



Exactly.



Exactly.



All this episode did was confirm all my worst fears about Grievous. I'm starting to think that May 2005 CAN come too soon... I don't want Star Wars to be killed for me any sooner than necessary, if this is indeed what's to be expected.


THANK GOD we know that this is NOT what is to be expected. If Obi-Wan can fight him AND his two bodyguards at once, and not only survive but actually win and kill all of them, it's quite clear that Grievous is not nearly this good.

Thank god.

Cool. I guess PH finally explained how Alderaan falls into the hands of the Empire yet is still Rebellious. If the Senate has control of the wars until Palpatine takes control, then Bail has to be really nice to Palpatine in order to protect Alderaan.

Pablo updated today.

-voice over work for CG characters begins in Aug or Nov.

-Expect a Post Notes tonight.

-There is a tentative webcam event planned for Thursday.

-No black lightsaber in Ep3.

-No Trandoshans in Ep3. (Whatever the hell those are)

-Sio Bibble will not have any dialogue in Ep3.

-Padme and Palpatine do not have a debate or confrontation in the Senate. But there are some concerned discussions between them elsewhere in the script.

-Passel Argente has not been cut yet.

-There's a day set for Wookie shoots this month.

Bossk is a Trandoshan.

I see Hook got a few questions in about Passel.

rewatch the madmartigan and general kael fight from the lucas penned "classic" willow, that should give some good indication as how the grevious/obi wan showdown plays out including the cracked mask bit too! i can see it now.

obi wan slices grevious' head thinks its all over then grevious head slowly turns and reveals his mask cracked in two his alien face snarling with a hint of calm he looks up at at obi wan who mutters "not good".

New Pabowan post is up.

Nothing too interesting, the word MONSTER is not in the title.

Um, actually, Pablo put to rest an argument long speculated about. We finally know the answer (as if it wasn't obvious from the spoilers):


OBI-WAN KNOWS ABOUT LEIA IN EPISODE III.

He also said Padme wouldn't be in ROTJ, but didn't say Hayden wouldn't. I think he's been asked that quite a bit, but has yet to deny it.

Also, OW is on an OT set? Tantive, maybe?

Just a small note; Someone asked Pabs if that was the fake Obi-Wan dummy Hayden was carrying on his back in the last documentary. Pabs replied that no it wasn't, you could see Ewan stand towards the end of the take, etc. True enough. But the lastest Homing Beacon mentions that the Obi-Wan dummy or 'Foami-Wan Kenobi' was actually made for that purpose. So it just wasn't used in that particular take, Pabs didn't make that clear.

In one unusual instance, Elsey and his team were asked to create an exact duplicate of Ewan McGregor as Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi, which was later nicknamed Foamy-Wan Kenobi.

When the scripts arrived it seemed that Hayden Christensen was going to be carrying around Ewan for days on the shoot, and we didn't want Hayden to put his back out straight away as soon as he started production. So we made a lightweight version that looks exactly like Ewan. It's going to be a very interesting collector's piece by the end of the movie," Elsey chuckles.

I thought RotJ was pretty clear on the point of Obi-Wan knowing about Leia .... guess that's why I skipped over those debates.

Oh I agree... I've always believed that he knew about both twins. But it's been argued back and forth for a while, so I'm glad it's finally put to rest.

I never did really get that argument either.

If there was any ambiguity in the ESB quote, what he says in ROTJ should resolve that. People read so much into the one line in one movie and ignore the complete conversation Obi Wan had one movie later.

IIRC, he says "That boy was our last hope."

How does that mean that he didn't know about Leia? Maybe he was a woman-hater and didn't think a girl had the cajones to take the Emperor on?

"That boy was our last hope." is a very true statement. You have to take it literally, even though it may be hard to after Obi-Wan's certain POV comments a film earlier. That boy, the particular one named Luke, was their last hope.

If the conversation continued it might have gone something like:

Yoda: No. There is another.

Kenobi: You mean the girl?

Yoda: Yes. Strong she is.

Kenobi: Back to the drawing board...

I thought RotJ was pretty clear on the point of Obi-Wan knowing about Leia...

It had been a possibility that Yoda first told Ben about Leia in ESB.

In any case, the Yoda-Ben conversation in ESB is still interesting. We can make guesses, but we don't actually know why Ben considered Luke to be their last hope.

They used "Fauxbi-Wan Kenobi" in some scenes, Ewan in others.

I'm very glad the Ben-Leia debate is put to rest.

At least the Homing Beacon finally explains the purpose of the Obi-Wan dummy. People thought it was created for a scene with pyrotechnics explosions or something similar that could endanger the actor. Turns out it's just so Hayden doesn't have to lug Ewan around. I wonder how much Anakin actually has to carry Obi-Wan in the movie then?

I guess it's not "The Metal Monster" that sucks, I kinda liked that title.

you'd be among the few

Too true..

Why on earth would Hayden be in ROTJ?

Because George Lucas has Alzheimer's, he's a very confused old man.

...instead of everyone saying "who the f**k is that?" when Sebastian Shaw's face is finally revealed.

The rumor that has been reported is that Shaw is still in the suit. Hayden only appears at the very end as a ghost with Yoda and Ben.

I hope they replace Sebastian Shaw with Martin Short as Ed Grimley. Luke takes Vader's mask off. Ed's like "Damn it was hot in there! I must say I'm glad you rescued me, Luke, I really do" with a stupid smile. Spits up green puke on Luke. Luke puts the mask back on. Ed's like "Wait I'm not done!"

Hayden in old-age makeup? That would be awful. Hayden as a spirit might be passable, but that's hardly high on the list of OT segments that need to be "fixed." McDairmid in ESB, absolutely. Hayden? Nah.

please, some one level with me here. why the hell would you want haden in the end of rotj any way.its a needless change and it fucks up the continiuty. i promise you it wont happen. why show a young ghost of someone who died as an old man. and please dont say he died when he became vader because thats only partialy true. though the sprit of who he was changed,he never stoped ageing.

I would tend to disagree. It's been posited here before that the Jedi Spirit will show the form of their last days (before they died). Anakin died when he became DV. Therefore, the spirit will be Hayden, but dying Vader will be Shaw.

And, apparently, there's proof of this fact out there already.