I disagree, the scene cried out for heavier emphasis. As I see it, shamefully compromised and looking more like an afterthought than the memorable scene it should have been. Cast your minds back, we were promised more.

So, anyway, the latest on what went down from Rick McCallum. On the audio of the DVD press conference posted tonight on Hyperspace, the first question Rick was asked was about this scene. The first thing he said to the reporter was "Oh, you're good." Rick went on to say that George thought it would be cool to do that little scene and bring Liam in to do it. However, when they did a version doing a voiceover without Liam, they decided that it "just didn't work". George then proceeded to cut the sequence.

I don't think we'll ever know the truth as to what happened. For what is worth, this is what Jon Knoll had to say about this sequence on his "365 Days" book:

"Originally (Yoda) was going to hear the voice of Qui-Gon Jinn, but that idea had to be scrapped late in postproduction"

(Emphasis mine).

Seems like's there's definetly more to this than LFL wants us to know. Sadly, it also seems like that sequence will never be restored in a future ROTS SE.

Probably not -- especially when you consider that Yoda's "performance" is very much an after-the-fact kind of thing. Exactly how much could they have done before deciding it didn't work? Was it just Frank Oz and Ben Burtt in a sound booth? Hardly seems like a fair shake.

If this is old news then sorry, I'm sure you'll get over it...

From comingsoon.net:

Q: What happened to Qui-Gon?

Rick McCallum: Actually, there was a thought. It was more like a "thoughtette". It was just a quick assembly of little sequences when Yoda is thinking. And George [Lucas] originally thought, "Well maybe it would be nice to have Liam [Neeson] come in." And then we did a little voice-over without Liam just to check it out and see what it would be like, but it just didn't really seem to have the impact that we had originally planned on, so we never shot it. We never went anywhere with it.

So, the question is how much can we trust Rick isn't just talking outta his arse?

Shot what? The scene is completely computer generated. Does he mean never recorded dialogue?

that made it all the way to the book and graphic novel?

yeah, and yoda was supposed to look like that in ep1.

I think bringing Qui Gonn in would have taken away from the whole emphasis of what was going on imo.

The Sith are in charge, and the Jedi are all but gone.

Personally I don't need this explained, I can enjoy the film without the explanation ... if I did, the same logic would apply to demanding an on-screen, crystal clear explaination as to how Luke ended up upside-down in the Wampa cave, who polished the droids at the end of ANH and more to the point at who's command?

Oh and whilst in the same mind-set, I demand a prequel trilogy detailing the back story of Han, Chewie and Lando!

That's the stupidest thing I've read yet. The Qui-Gon scene would have been a BIG revelation, not something insignificant like who polished the droids, you ignorant fucking wretch.

No, my point was that in my opinion I'm fine with the way it all plays out, and that I don't need it explained which is why I went on to mention the polishings and upside-downess of things.

And I'm not ignorant, I'm rather astute you know

Fantastic word

The only real reason the Qui-Gon scene needs to be in there is to explain how Anakin can merge with the force in VI.

That's why it needs to be there. I don't care about how or why qui-gon learned how to do it....all I want to have explained on screen is that through compassion a Jedi can retain his identity and live forever.

Without that information or at least a hint of this being the case, Anakin showing up at the end of VI causes a big 'zuh'.

I'm disappointed it's not on the DVD as it's the only change, besides fixing the soundtrack, I want done to the actual film.

I can hope GL sticks to his usual ways and goes back to add it down the road....

I know I read some article a while back where Neeson said something along the lines of:

"I've just finished a top secret scene for Episode III, but I'm bound by the Jedi code of ethics not to say anything about it yet"

Now, I can't remember what the article was about, but I know it involved fellow SW actor Samuel Jackson.
Does anyone else remember reading anything like this?

I think it was at a premiere of another movie, but I'm sure the big question was whether or not Neeson was being funny, and was just winding the fans up.

Folks, Lucas intended do something big with this Immortality stuff. If he didn't, why did he add Qui-Gon's voice to AOTC? Why did he add Hayden to the end of ROTJ? Why does Obi-Wan come back as a ghost at all in the OT (Yoda could've just sent him a text message saying "get your ass to Dagobah, you runt")? Lucas was going for something here and something happened that made him change his mind. And it wasn't "the scene didn't work".

I don't believe a fucking word McCallum says.

You could argue either way I guess whether that voiceover would have been needed or not. My problem is that there was no mention that Qui-Gon would be the one to train Yoda and Obi-Wan how to join the force. Its not mentioned. We're just supposed to realize it or something.

Did you watch the same movie as the rest of us?

Yoda told Obi Wan it would be Obi Wans former master, and Obi Wan replied "Qui Gon?"

The whole PT is shoddily written.

But we're never told what qui-gon would teach them. i never said there was no mention of qui-gon.


I wouldn't go that far. My big complaint with it is that episodes 1 and 2 really don't do much to advance the overall storyline. only one or two events from each film fit in with it. the PT is great in that it deepens the emotional story of the first 3 films but if the OT didn't exisit and we started out with episode 1, i don't think we would have gotten to episode 2.

TPM should have dealt with the separatist crisis - the breaking of the Republic, the falling power of the Jedi. AotC should have been Anakin protecting a Senator who's planet was invaded by Separatists as she campaigns against a war and falling in love with her in the process.

Certain elements fit right - Anakin's power over loss, the Jedi no longer a real force, the power struggle within the Senate. You can see where the story wants to go, but it is just muddled around between the episodes.

Even RotS - the Rebel Alliance and the Jedi's involvement with them is really the catalyst for Anakin turning to the darkside and being very disappointed when he thinks Amidala has betrayed him. Those cut scenes set up so much (both in AotC and RotS).

I think the story would have worked much better if some events were shifted around.

Ternian: The films are not shoddily written. Your story approach would certainly make them more mainstream, but they wouldn't be immune to bringing out plot and story structure interpretable from different points of views.

Lucas made the films his own. Sure, they're quirky, capricious and sometimes horrendously slow. But they are undeniably his own works of art. And as such they are beautifully rendered, conceptualized and executed in all their weirdness and stubborness. They're not shoddy.

If you say so. Anakin's fall is handled fine in the film -- he can't let anything go, so he pays. It sounds to me like you still can't come to grips with the deleted scenes (including those terrible roundtable discussions) being ousted from the film.

Yes, Lucas had more control over these films than any other filmmaker in history. BUT, the reason to make movies is to make money. This is not something he could have done with his kids and a camcorder. He has every right to make the films as he sees them but he also has an obligation to his fans, the people laying down the cash to watch these films, buy the soundtracks, books, games, etc., to make these films as enjoyable and coherent as possible. If I had made episode 1, I wouldn't have been able to make episode 2. the reason 1 and 2 were hits were because of the name Star Wars associated with it.

Thats just hilarious. Lucas has no obligations. And the fact that the films exist in its current forms confirms that.

Fact is, George Lucas has been able to make the PT the way he has because of the success of all his other films and the fact that he put up his own money. if a first time director were to make TPM the exact same way Lucas made it, you think it would still be a hit? Filmmakers are not allowed the type of autonomy Lucas has. He's an anomoly. And just because he can do something the way he wants doesn't mean its the right way to do it.

Exactly the same way? Yeah, I think it'd be a hit. Maybe not a billion dollar blockbuster, but at least $200 million domestically.

If TPM had of led the saga; without a fanbase, it would have sunk bigtime.

You walk up to average joe blow on the street and ask him about the prequels, they usually squirm and tell you how much better the originals were.

I like the SW world, but the story is shoddily told.

Thank you. The PT is Lucas' Godfather 3

I understand how most people feel about the PT, but I try to remember that the OT had maverick characters and reckless youths. Perhaps the PT would have been better if Steven Speilberg had directed, but its all a moo point, they're done, and looking at them again and again I grow to love them just as I did for the OT. The charaters of the PT are more serious, they are Jedi monks and uptight politicians, until all hell breaks loose in Ep. 3. Well all had scenes we liked or didn't like throughout all 6, and I know I have a special liking of the OT, but there are some really great scenes throughout the PT, like Liam Neeson's seriousness as a Jedi, the OB1 and Maul duel, the podrace, Christopher Lee, Yoda sword fighting, many more worlds, and how the Emporer came to be. I know it sounds cheesy but I love them all, and can't wait til I can have a viewing party of all 6 and get and have a good time with fans and friends.

agreed.

If I was re-writing TPM, the first thing I would do is get rid of is Darth Maul, Tatooine and all of the Otoh Gunga/Gungans.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen kids in stores yelling out "Star Wars!" when they see the toys or games or whatever. They are far more enthusiastic for the series than I have been in recent memory. This means that kids, aka people without a bunch of BS baggage about what is "cool" or makes great films, have connected with them in a big way. And it's the new stuff movies obviously, since that is what they are peddling.

I'm not going to be so bold to say it would have flopped or it would have been a huge success. There IS a market for family friendly fare that is creative, imaginative etc, regardless of it being silly. I think saying "I would have done it THIS way" is an utter waste of time and thought. If you have creative inclinations then go out there and create and quit ripping on a mans lifes work long after it's over with.

Finally someone with a mature sense of mind.

Please provide constructive replies - that is getting too agressive for these forums.

That's not aggressive, it's true. You're not rewriting the prequels, so why even think about it? If you have an urge to make your own movies, then do it.

Hmmm ok? I actually thought my reply was quite constructive and not "aggressive" just truthful.

In case anyone remembers me it's been awhile since I posted anything. This is because mysteriously my interest in star wars plummeted to about nothing after episode 3 was released. Why? I'm not sure, but it literally feels like I instantly "grew up" after I saw it at midnight. I had 8 years of following spoilers closely and going to the midnight showings and being hyped etc. And now I couldn't care less. I think Lucas succeeded in his vision, I'm satisfied with it, and now it's time to move on. I'm not sure you can get more constructive than that to be honest! Life is too short to STILL be debating the same thing you were a year ago about Star Wars.

Talking about what you like and dislike seems cool enough but to complain about how you would rewrite something that took a man ten years to complete months after the entire thing is over seems to me like the act of someone who perhaps needs a more realistic perspective on it all. Just my thoughts, nothing "aggressive" about that. I just decided to check out what people were saying about the dvd since I did go and buy it yesterday, and was quite surprised to find what I did, in terms of what people were still discussing. Maybe I shouldn't have been, since it IS a Star Wars message board...I just can't believe people who didn't like this or that about the films are still upset and are still complaining and are still talking about what they would do to make it "better."

Well said, Dr. Bass. I felt the same way after leaving the theater in May. About 95% of my obssesive compulsive behavior relating Star Wars was instantly cured that night. I mean, it's exhausting being a Star Wars geek. We could probably all use a time-out.

I suppose my juices will probably start flowing again when the (expected) 30th Anniversary Hexology DVD set gets released. Hopefully George will make right all the little mistakes that irk the hell out of us (such as the green saber in ANH, and the schlocky editing of AOTC). And if Phantom Menace Yoda really did get a facelift, that's half a relief already. But I'm not really losing sleep about these films. Not anymore.

I guess I'll never understand why some people have to take such offense to other people's complaints with the Prequels. I think a lot of stuff in the Prequel Trilogy sucks, but clearly I have no right to complain.



"I would have done it THIS way" is not an utter waste of time and thought, as Lucas himself has already proven. Wasn't that the whole basis for the Star Wars Special Editions (and DVDs)?

I guess the obvious reply to that is that it's his creation and his work and he wanted to fix it. He has the means, the ability and the right to do so. No one else on planet Earth does. Anyway...Star Wars was fun while it lasted (for me, pretty much the past 25 years). Maybe the excitement will come back for me when I get to show them to whatever future children I may have. Cheers.

And being that this whole series is the epitome at creativity at its best, whats wrong with people speculating on what they would have liked to have seen? With a movie like this not everyone is going to be happy with every minute on the screen but the fact that we're taking time out of our lives to talk about shows some love on our parts. Its like baseball fans arguing what would have happened if Kirk Gibson hadn't hit the game winning homer in the '88 World Series or Christian Laetner hadn't hit the game winner in the semi finals of the Final Four for Duke over Kentucky back in the early '90's. We may be frustrated things didn't go are way but that doesn't mean we like the end product any less.

Kids love them and the (at times silly) atmosphere of them just as much as the OT kids loved their trilogy. That to me says a lot more than some faceless prick on MF moaning that he didn't get three more ESB's.

It's a little late at this point, but I attended one of the Star Wars weekends this last year when Rob Coleman was there. I asked him about the Qui-Gon scene, and he told me exactly what you guys have said; it was originally planned but never made it to actual shooting. To me this confimed it since I had heard McCallum say that, but we all know how much he can be trusted....

I guess the thing that I really missed about not having the scene was how much it made me like EP1. I used to not be a huge fan of EP1, but when I read the Qui-Gon scene in the novel it gave me so much more to look at in that movie. You could actually analyze Qui-Gon's character in that movie then instead of being stuck with just a 2 hour glimpse at what the missing scene essentially would make a very integral character for the whole future of the Jedi.

The exclusion of this scene creates a sort of continuity error and confusion that could have been avoided. Your average viewer watching the Saga as a whole won't know how Obi-Wan and Yoda defy death as Qui-Gon supposedly did (even more so since Qui-Gon doesn't disappear, while Obi-Wan and Yoda do), and especially how the the spirit of Anakin Skywalker appears at the end of Jedi. It will be back in for the next release, I think.

I agree, this scene is absolutely pivotal IMO.

I think it's bullshit how at the time of Episode 2 Lucas says he'll explain the disappearing Jedi/Jedi ghost thing in Episode 3. That was something I was really looking forward to. Now, Lucas pulls this bullshit. This he leaves unexplained when he goes out of the way to introduce Midichlorians (which served no purpose)??????

Fuck you, Lucas.