Technically, the Jedi should have sensed the Clone's turn - Yoda did.

That's one thing that has disappointed me throughout the PT - the Jedi's abilities seem rather weak...

But aren't the Jedi's ablitlities to use the force deminished?

I think Yoda should have had his arse handed to him, instead of just losing his Saber... that's cheap.

Though I do think the fact that Sidious didn't totally win the fight is important... He needs Vader. He's not strong enough without him. Sidious is a pussy, he tried to run. I don't quite understand Lucas's intention here.

Is Sidious really far superior to Yoda or did he just get lucky? Yoda obviously thought he was defeated otherwise he would have returned to face him again.

I don't like the idea that the lightning melted Palpatine's face... I prefer the theory that Palpatine is just so evil it transforms him, just like his red eyes. (yellow, then... whatever )

Yoda was stronger, but his age took the best of him. If he would still be able to fight, he would've force-pulled himself up that senate pod he was slipping off from.

Red eyes? Aren't they yellow?

Yeah, we seem to get more of a hint of the Jedi abilities in Ep1 when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan do their speed run thing at the start. And then again with the skill of the Maul duel. I suspect this wasn't built on to allow for a better bridge to the OT. Had they pumped the Jedi action to the level of the cartoon, the OT would have looked pale by comparison. I don't know if I'd want to see them as superheroes anyway. I think the level of their abilities worked well.

Well if you read Ian's interview that I posted he is just hiding his true appearance and it comes out at that scene.

Also didn't Yoda lose his saber? I don't think you would want to keep fighting without a weapon.

Yeah, I did read that interview you posted... I good interview it is.

But people are saying the Lucas has said that it's the lightning that transformed him. To be honest I think Lucas talks out of his arse half the time any way... I like Ian's explanation a lot better.

Yeah, Yoda lost his saber, which in my opinion is a cheap way of losing a battle. He should have gotten owned. Never the less it was a good fight. I like to think of it more as a stalemate. At least that's the way it's played out on screen. Sidious come off as just being lucky he grabbed onto the rail and Yoda only has those little claws.

I thought the whole he gets fried and melts his face thing came from somewhere else but I don't remember where. The visual dictionary says his true form is revealed also. I know I thought he got melted too but it just doesn't seem to play out like that in the actual movie. He obviously isn't hurt after the lightning bout (he's actually quite happy with himself) and his personality is totally different when he comes out of his shell. The Palpatine persona HAS to be a facade.

Also I'm glad that Yoda didn't really "lose" personally. Otherwise sending Luke off to face Vader and the Emperor is practically a death sentence. Not to mention it would make Yoda's' line in ESB seem like a lie. It played out well I thought.

Yoda had already been sensing something was wrong. First when Mace was killed, and then in a much bigger way when the purge began. He knew something was coming his way. It was different for those who were hit first.

On a good note:

The scene between Anakin and Padme on the balcony where they discuss Padme thinking like a Separatist is one of my fav scenes in the PT and Saga.

It reminds me of the picnic scene in AotC...CLASSIC.

But the Tantive IV bridge! Why was it so small?!?!?!

Alderaanians are a petite people, y'see.

...and I know it has been asked before, but after watching EP3 I'm still confused: How the hell does Obi-Wan not know R2 in EP4? He calls him by name several times in EP3.

He actually says something like 'I don't remember owning any droids' before stroking his chin (or words to that effect) which is true

Not aimed just at your post, but generally I'm not concerned about nitpicky plotholes - just come up with a good reason yourself and go for it

If I had a couple it would be

a) difference in technology (PT vs OT) and
b) how Luke would have a chance vs the emperor.

Ah well. I just live with it

In the latest Star Wars Insider, the interview with Ian McDiarmid shines some light on the subject.

Ian- "... the real Palpatine is the one who bursts forth at a calculated moment in Episode III just after persuading Anakin to Kill Mace. That is when the true person comes out, letting evil fully manifest itself."

"I don't think George had made up his mind when we started shooting whether to continually show Lord Sidious as he really is after his initial transformation or if Sidious would go back and forth with his appearance."

Back on Topic-

ROTS seems to get better every time I see it. My first reaction was quite negative and now that I have seen it 3 times I can honestly say that ROTS is one of best from both trilogies. I think I read too many nickpick reviews before I saw it the first time and all I could think about was what is wrong with the movie and not what was great about the movie.

I totally agree. The more I see the movie, the more I enjoy it. It's quite simply a rollercoaster ride.

/nerd_factor = 1;

To me, it is hard to determine whether or not Sidious is just acting in the "Frying scene".
On the other hand, why would he keep shooting the lightnings which Mace is barely being able to handle; he would simply stop hurting himself if he feels unbearable pain.
Moreover, I read that Dark Force Lightnings cannot hurt Sidious himself.

/nerd_factor = 0;

As Qui-Gon observes in TPM, "He can see things before they happen...It is a Jedi trait." He's been been having premonitions, small and large, his entire life. It's reasonable to think his inclination is to believe the visions (especially after the experience with his mother - though that wasn't so much a vision of the future, as it was something that was happening concurrently.)




I read somewhere (maybe the Insider or Hyperspace?) that the Tantive's more slender appearance in EIII is due to it being before layers of armor were added during the subsequent years leading up to the EIV opening.

Okay i've finally seen the movie and made sure i payed attention to the parts people were talking about. First I thought the movie was pretty good. Im a huge star wars fan like anyone else and it was def the best of the PT. Yes there was some things i didn't like about the movie. The day i went i double dated with my best friend girl and her cousin. She made a good point that some parts seemed kinda cheesy. And she didn't really buy the love scene. During the middle of the movie she said "This is gay." I was kinda embarrassed. I brought the love scene personally because i actaully saw all the Pt and knew the story well. However, I think things did seemed a little rushed and Personally if he made the movie a little longer or cut out some of the romantic scene it would have been better. Anakin turning to the dark side and killing "younglings" seemed rushed too. I could tell the Lucas cut the shit out of this movie and some lines i was expecting to here wasn't in there. The Clone troopers did looked funny i did notice that and during the "Padme brushing her hair" scene was playing i finally understand what everyone was talking about. "ilove you" "no i love you more" The fight seemed sooo short with dooku, sid and yoda, and anakin. The only thing that didn't seemed cut was the Obi and Grevious fight. I didn't see the big deal with the obi wan riding the creature i thought that was pretty tight. And i also like Grevious and the wookies as well i felt they weren't much of a bother. I can say i felt sad when all the jedis died and how yoda was reacting. Also at the end when anakin and obi was talking before the battle and the end result. I really feel sorry for anakin because I can understand he was young and just wanted to save the person he loved. Could have been played out better and developed much better but I knew what the point was. But overall i rate it 8/10 I would like to watch it again but not too soon. I can't wait for the Dvd too see all the scene that was cut out.

I can explain it just fine, because Lucas spoke of that moment:

Lucas wanted a very supernatural feel to the Sith naming Ceremony.

Therefore, the reason the voice was distorted, was because for that moment, it is as if Palpatine invokes every Sith before him. Therefore, it is simply not just Palpatine, but the Sith as an entity through the Force, that name Darth Vader.

I hope that explains it well, because I felt it came off quite well. But it might seem odd to someone who is unaware of what is going on.

^Good explanation! I thought that because of the lightening his voice was jacked and he couldn't quite hold a note when talking, but I like your explanaion better

he fried his vocal cords

I have a guess on the Sidious face thing as well.

Remember the old rumors that, while not as old as Yoda, Sidious was old?

Combine that with the idea that Darth Plageius knew how to "cheat Death".

What if the whole power was not something that can bring someone back to life or prevent bodily harm from killing them, but making it so that they do not age?

It could conceivably be that when the lightning was reflected back on Sidious, whatever Sith power he was using to retain his age got disrupted, thus he ages to his appropriate age as a result, whatever that may be.

Thoughts?

One of the coolest moments was when Obiwan and Anakin were in the lift and some droids entered and tried to arrest them. There was a little look that Obiwan and Anakin shared before completely destroying the droids.............it was like,'they cannot be serious.............!'
That little look meant so much to me.Remember what Obiwan said in ANH, 'he was the best pilot in the galaxy, a cunning warrior AND A GOOD FRIEND'

I have yet to watch the OT since seeing ep3, can't wait to see all the things that will finally make more sense because we've actually seen them.

Personally I don't think there is a problem here. A lot of the droid tech is rather different to the Imperial tech, but the droids lose so I guess that accounts for most of that not appearing again (big spinning wheel ground attack things off AOTC for instance), and the Imperial stuff seems pretty much the same to me (ground walkers and Star Destroyers for example), except by the time of the OT they can't be arsed with painting them any more so they're all grey.

And the OT has the 2 ultimate weapons, which I'd say are an advancement.


The way I see it is that many old buildings here in England are way more attractive to look at that many of the crap looking stuff we have built since the war, but it doesn't necessarily make them more advanced.

Cars from the 1920s and 30s are perhaps another example.



The above looks way better than a lot of modern cars, but it won't go as fast.





As for the film... it's good.

I loved it.

one thing I wanted to see, that I think I remember seeing either clips, or stills of was some ani/obi fist fighting. Am I imagining things? I remember thinking, "wow. lightsabers aside, ani wants to hit him in the face, thats so much more insulting and raw..." But it wasnt in there, right?? Now I am all fuzzy about what was there and what wasnt, but I think thats right.

I thought it was way better the second time.

This may sound a little premature and whimsical, but I smell an oscar for Lucas and ILM for ROTS. The only competition I see in the foreseeable future is: Fantastic 4 and War of the Worlds.

ROTS should win "Best special effects in a movie" hands down -- and at least a nod for "Best Editing."

The great flannelled one has historically been snubbed in the past and I think it's time Lucas and the gang receives credit where credit is due for their arduous work and creative efforts in this final installment. I, for one, will be disappointed if this movie is shunned for a nomination in any category.

I did notice that too. And there was a clip that one guy has of his avatar where anakin and obi is fighting is taking out as well. I wish lucas didnt edit the shit out of this movie. The things i wanted to see and hear just weren't in it.

I think it was just inevitable. Like it was going to happen no matter what. Kinda like the matrix where Mr. Smith just kept saying. She was going to die because of anakin.

They kick each other a few times but it was nothing fancy, I never got the idea they really wanted to kill each other or even hurt each other. When the lava came down they both looked at it for a few seconds, at that moment Obi-Wan could have easily stabbed Anakin in the back. Obi-Wan pleads with Anakin not to do anything that will get himself killed. Anakin also didn't seem sure about what he wanted. But like I said before, I could have done without that horrible 'from my point of view the Jedi are evil' line. It didn't sound very believable just like killing the younglings will never make sense to me.

Actually, I felt that made it more real - not every opportunity will be taken advantage of in a fight.

You have GOT to be kidding...right?

I'm not trying to single you out Tern but it seems like the stuff you say is so bizarre.

Tern hated ROTS... so chances are, he's being sarcastic.

I agree. We're sort of armchair quarterbacking a lightsabre duel. I see a large column of lava falling from the sky and wiping out my sole link to safety, I think I'll take note of that. Rule number one: look to thine own ass first.

I dunno...I told him earlier that he seems like the kinda guy that thinks the political stuff in the prequels are its strongest points. So either I was right or he is being sarcastic (but you can't really tell since he hates everything else).

True.

Went to see it Saturday morning. I enjoyed it. It could have gone another hour easily if they'd fleshed out some of the stuff that only got breezed by. My only real dissappointment is that the wookies didn't get as much screen time as I would have liked. I like wookies.

I could nit-pick, but I'm not going to. It was fun. Now I just need the DVD so I can watch all 6 in a row.

About that OT vs. Prequels technology:

Out of all the things wrong I see with the Prequels, the whole tech things actually doesn't bother me. After the Republic's resources were devoted to the Clone Wars for several years, it's no surprise that the Empire will have to start making more economical, factory dime-a-dozen machines. The Empire is all about cheap tech, but LOTS of it. Those TIE Fighters went down like flies...but those bitches are just a bunch of clones in the SW Yugos. In the Clone Wars, those walkers were looking more advanced...but after the galaxy was devastated with the wars, the shit started looking more like the cheap factory line crap aka Chiken Walkers.

I'm not trying to rationalize the Prequels as a whole...just this little bit. Because as a whole, I think Lucas failed miserably. Hell, I don't even consider EP1-3 canon. Ok, EP3 was the best of them...but hey, that's like asking which one is the hotest chick on Golden Girls.

I don't consider IV through VI canon, so that evens us out.

I've always supported Lucas's "I do it my way - take it or leave it approach." but after watching ROTS I really think he should have gotten somebody else to direct. (I'm sure most of you are thinkin - NO KIDDING RETARD) There were a couple parts of this movie which (in my opinion) were NOT Lucas, specifically the part where Anakin is in the Temple and Padme is in her apartment and they were having their "silent moment". Personally, I thought that was a cool scene and very emotional but there is no way Lucas could have done that (maybe Speilberg). But I think thats just something George hasn't been able to pull off. Even Order 66 being carried out was also a good scene which most likely wasn't George either.

The movie was very good, but I think what bothers most of us is that it could have been even better.

bout 6 heh Deerfield, i live in Boynton

I agree about that scene...I can't see Lucas doing anything that subtle. The scene really reminded me how much better these 3 movies could have been in the hands of a better writer/director.

I'm just glad what is typed on the internet isn't representative of the majority of Star Wars fans' thoughts.

Yeah, Lucas should have turned the reigns over to someone...anyone!

So from the use of drama and emotion we conclude it it is impossible for Lucas to have come up with it? Why do people think someone else should have directed it? I thought the shot compositions were spot on. If anything, he should have gotten a better editor.

You have to remember that Lucas is the worst director in the history of moviemaking.

He should have turned it over to somebody like Ron Howard.

So who directed the Tatooine sunset scene in ANH then? Please someone inform me

actually what happend was they forgot to turn off the camera and when the suns where going down the intense light confused mark and he wandered infront of the camera, later when George was editing he found this footage and declared himself a master director.

Hey, don't foget...it's possible to be a Star Wars fan and sill think Lucas is the most overrated filmmaker in the genre. Irvin Kershner, Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan....3 names that prove Star Wars is better without Lucas having a hands-on role. Lucas invented a brilliant franchise, but he should've past on the torch.

For fuck's sake... Leigh Bracket's draft was tossed out because it didn't go in the direction Lucas wanted. He gave her the screenwriting credit as a posthomous tribute. Thew final draft of Empire is almost word for word Lucas, with touch-ups from Kasdan.

I'm fascinated by the school of Star Wars sheep who insist on crediting third parties with everything good about the saga, while blaming Lucas for all its shortcomings. Kinda like a more annoying version of the morons whow hine about ''all the fake-looking CGI'' while staring at a model head-on.

I often hear people comment that Lucas is a shit director. I have to ask if these people have ever seen a Uwe Boll film. Then again, even a 6 year old with a camera looks like a genius after Uwe.