Do you have a short-term memory and forget the reports that Liam Neeson was on set during filming of Episode 3? Or the rumors that he hinted at being in it to news reporters?

In some aspects I do agree with that. I thought the lightsaber battles, while very impressive, did seem to sometimes have an annoying "Bourne Supremacy" feel to them...where the camera cuts in close then to another angle so fast that it is impossible to actually tell what the hell is going on.

I've just got back from seeing for a second time, and I enjoyed a lot more the second time than the first, I think there was too much antispation the first viewing, we have lived and breathed this movie for too long, and I was gauging it against every expectation too much to truly take it all in and absorb the enjoyment.

The second time I could just sit back and enjoy the ride, what a great movie.

IMO the rotoscoping has changed the fights considerably.

seems as though a lot more frames are being used to suggest motion (big streaks or chunks of light) which is disorientating. plus, anyone else notice the sabers seemed overly white?

not bitching, wondering.

He simply said "No comment", not that he was in it. And if he visited the set, why was it never mentioned in the OS Set Diaries? They mentioned all other guests.

And remember the report from McCallum that seemed to indicate that he was going to be in the movie, but it never happened?

Look, there's only one reason Lucas would cut that scene; Liam didn't do the work.

Truely, that balcony scene was truely horrendous. After three years of marriage and two kids on the way, I'm thinking it would be more like:

PADME
Hun, can you get me a Jawa juice? My feet hurt...

ANAKIN
I'm watching Death PodRacing Hun...can't it wait?

PADME
Do I have to do everything?

ANAKIN
I just got back from the wars...give me a break, hun! I just want to sit with my blue milk and watch some pod racing...is that okay with you?!

Are you trying to say "truly"?

PS- I do, by the way, agree with you. The balcony scene was painful to watch.

Finally got around to seeing it today...wow, been clubbing way too much these past few weeks.

The big problem I really have with the film is how it defeats the idea of a prequel trilogy. While IV-VI create a story, I feel I-III are more or less like different eras in a history book instead of a backstory. And in that sense, three movies could have been made out of the material in ROTS with minimal references to the other prequels.

Because I liked ROTS as a whole, this is the only backstory I'm going to use. I can take references and symbols at face value. The Tusken slaughter was justified. The japor snippet doesn't represent Anakin having wood for Padme from age 8.

The first thing I did when I came home was threw my action figures into the trash compactor. As Han, Boba, and Ephant Mon are crushed, I'm reminded of the movie's big theme...delusion. I now see Star Wars as an art show. Dozens of artists show us what imagination really is, but Lucas is the guest speaker talking out his ass and fucking it all up.

But now the speaker is painted into a corner...don't let him claim any more of your creativity.

I just came back from seeing it the 2nd time. Here are some thoughts.

- IMHO, natalie portman's ONLY good line is "So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause". Every other line is forced, overacted, and poorly acted. HC was more believable than NP.

- I don't like the delivery of HC's "the jedi turned against me, don't you turn against me". It doesn't sound natural. It sounds like he left off "too". Then he turns around and says "you turned her against me" or something like that to Obi-wan, and the delivery is basically the same...it doesn't sound natural.

- Anakin's turn and fall felt better the 2nd time, but, it still feels a little rushed to me. But, I bought into it a lot more.

- The part where Yoda clutches his chest and rubs his head during Order 66 is one of the most powerful moments in all of the trilogy for me. Whoever was in charge of that did an awesome job. His lightsaber fighting and moves are similar to AOTC, but are more believable. Hell, even Sidious does a couple of yoda-like flips.

- I love how Mace and Sidious use the same stance, arms raised over their head with the lightsaber running parallel to their backs. I thought that was interesting.

- Speaking of Sidious, I'm converted. Sidious, while losing the lightsaber section, was in total control once he scrambled. Though, I don't think his face melting was something he intended. But, that's just me. As for his fight with Yoda, he had the high ground, but once Yoda throws the pod back and he's forced to jump down, he loses. Yoda jumps up and starts absorbing his lightning. Sidious moves up to Yoda thinking it would overwhelm yoda, but once Yoda concentrates and pushes back, you can see the look of surprise on Sidious' face. Sidious lucks out and is able to get a better grip than Yoda. Sidious hanging on laughing reminded me of the Joker at the end of the first Batman movie.

- The fact that people are claiming there are political undertones in the movie just shows how far they are willing to stretch to attempt to make an argument. These people care more about arguing their point and will use anything and everything to try to justify themselves.

- I think it's interesting that OBW and Anakin share a real personal moment before OBW leaves for Utapau, and the next time they see each other, they are trying to kill each other. What total extremes.

- I absolutely hate the idea of Padme dying of a broken heart. I mean, star wars is cheesy, but that's just over the top bad.

- The suited vader "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" still sucks. But the franken-vader walk and hands back is fine. I read someone say something about Vader going instant-badass once he's in the suit, but they fail to realize he's still more PT anakin than OT vader at that point in time.

- This is better than Jedi to me, but not better than ANH or Empire.

- I hope the Dooku fight cut scenes are put back in for the DVD. The character seems like such a waste after episode 2 and the clone wars cartoons.

Well. Its all over. I felt giddy exictement as the 20th Century fanfare began, and when the Tatooine scene came on screen, I knew it was all over.

I walked out to the car, and all I could think about was Obi-wan's speech to Anakin as Anakin layed burning. More powerful than anything in the entire sexology.

I'll have to see this movie again, simply to catch things that I might have missed while thinking about the previous scene.

I was worried about the digital pilots in the space battle (turned out to be no problem at all), and there was nothing else wrong with the CG (on that note, the shot of Kashyyyk where the camera comes around that mountain - top notch). Grevious really turned out good, the look, the voice, the coughing... all way better than I expected, even though I wish the lightsaber battle had more intensity, like the Clone Wars sparring with Dooku, or the battle in the train depot (it was good, though, don't get me wrong... real holy shit moment). And boga was awesome. I fell in love with it in the 5 minutes it was on screen.

This movie had some really high emotional points. The jokes were funny, the dark points were pit-in-stomach wretching. I really liked the first meeting of Anakin and Padme. Miles above all of AOTC's love story. Anakin wants to fuckin do it right on the floor; Padme, the level-headed Senator, shows restraint. And the movie's only point that was truly "bad" was the line "You're beautful.... I'm beautiful because I'm in love with your love in love with me" Or whatever it was. It made no sense, and I laughed out loud at the stupidity.

Ewan really does an awesome job. Nothing else to say, he was great.

I could go on and on... Palps was great (if over-acted right after he transforms), Yoda animation was really, really awesome. Amazing, really.

I guess I was only left with one question: Palps confesses to Anakin that he doesn't know how to save life, so why doesn't Anakin say "You don't have what I want? Fuck this"?

Maybe it'll be cleared up with more viewings. Overall, the movie flew. Maybe too fast. Maybe the deleted scenes will fill some things out. Its the best of the sexology, simply because of the emotional effect. None of the movies had me thinking on a deeper level about what I had just watched. I came out thinking "Damn that battle was cool". I came out today thinking, "Damn, poor Anakin"... then I remember the youngling scene, and I think "That bastard... he got what he deserved". The conflicting thoughts is why its good.

*** 3/4 out of ****

Saw it again last night.

Once again, some pivital moments, that could of made this flick a masterpiece, where butchered by editing (I feel for JW who probably wanted to shoot himself after watching this movie)

ex1: Yoda drops his cane (most emotional part of the entire movie) and the following cuts just kill the moment for me, you can feel where things seem out of place.

ex2: Right before mace confronts palps, there is this great ominous scene with padme and anikan, that should of gone right into the mace battle, but instead they splice in this fucking two second clip of anikan running off with this completely out of place music that just destorys the moment.

ex3: The declaration ofthe empire, fabulous, perfect, and then we go to the jedi temple, and what do they do? They cut the music, just killing the moment.

The movie is wonderful, but damn that editing and those stupid wipes just make this movie far from the cinematic masterpiece this could of been.


I think my fav thing about the movie is that it shows how wrong Obiwan and Yoda are, in the PT and OT.

"The boy you trained, Gone he is, consumed by Darth Vadar"
Really? Thats why he is crying, and still loves his wife. And saves his son.

"after the death of count duku anikan became his new aprentice"
Oh really? Wrong again doof.

BTW, anyone else catch the Yoda head that was blasted onto the front of the clone tank in the wookie battle?

The movie was great. I liked the Palp/Mace scene the most. It's a shame all three Jedi Masters' died so quickly. Palpatine is pretty powerful, though. No suprise there. It was played out how we all thought from the great people who brought spoilers to the MF.com community. You all rock!

"The boy you trained, Gone he is, consumed by Darth Vadar"

That sort of bugged me too. I would think someone as learned as Yoda would know how simplistic a statement that is, and understand that there are layers to everything and complexity to any person...whether they are "good" or "evil". So that begs the question...did Yoda keep it simple to try and persuade Obi-Wan that he needed to kill Anakin? I would think that sort of deceit would be unbecoming of him.

Then again it is just a movie.

Suddenly it all becomes clear the reason Tern doesn't like the balcony scene - it involves Padme instead of Dorme....

I went today and to give you a short summary: I absolutely LOVED it!!

To get into some details that caught me right into this movie:

Battles - loved every minute of it, even though the beginning should´ve been more "boombastic" and great, so we can all feel how the clone wars really were. Grievious should´ve been more "dangerous", but on the other hand that would weaken the final fights too much, maybe that´s one of the reasons Lucas wanted him to be "easily defeated". Obi-Wan is a bad ass, we already knew it

Love moments - Great stuff. I can´t actually believe how much i cared for Anakin AND padme when they both were on screen, i simply fell in love with both. Erm, sorry, what did i just say ? Ok, next one ...

Emotion - Now that surprised me the most. This movie should´ve been called Titanic 2 (if it would make sense, well, forget that thought) because of the sheer amount of emotions which are felt right in your heart and make you cry, in a good way of course...not what you think !

Ian McDiarmid - Now i know why i really liked this movie a lot more than only because of the points i just told you. There simply is NO substitute for IAN, plain and simple, he is STAR WARS. Just great.

- Music - i would say, this was somekind of a negative surprise for me. I didn´t know the new soundtrack, but i was highly disturbed by the fact, that Williams re-used almost every single bit he had created in those years. Well, to tell you the truth i enjoyed a lot of those moments in the movie, with the present, but quite parts of music the most, a good sign ?!

- Story - This movie finally brings everything together. One ring that binds them, one bad guy that hurts them ... err, wrong movie .....

Story (next try) - I cared a LOT for every character on screen, which definately is a good sign. Sam was the most weak character present, at least that´s the way how i felt. Lucas is a genius btw. When i didn´t know it before - no i´m sure of it. This movie EXPLAINS the shit out of every question i ever had about the old trilogy which kinda made me go: "YEAAAAHHH WOOOOOWWW LUUUCAAASSS RUUULLZZ". No, i´m not kidding, i really have almost no question left that he could explain to me - i really am impressed how he managed to explain, 1. how the emperor got older and why; 2. why anakin was "forced" by his own feelings and acts to only have one route left, after his only hope, to help padme, just vanished in front of him;

I could go on an on guys, but this movie really is damn good piece of work and i hope Lucas gets that message. i also think that with returning visits to the same it can only get better and better. Definately RECOMMENDED.

I've heard a lot of complaints about Sam Jackson, I'm not sure why. I was suprised too the way Lucas had written for Mace in ROTS. He was like the guy that knew everything was crumbling was unable to do anything about it. He had lost all trust in Anakin, his faith in the prophecy was almost non-existent, he was genuinely disturbed about the events going on around him on Coruscant. Finally, it was up to him to make the arrest.

In the end I thought Sam did OK.

Saw it again today for the third time and still love it.
I know we're all supossed to be superfans but I take it for what it is....awesome entertainment. The originals had just as many problems if not more than the new ones but I guess that's ok eh?
I looked for the so called clone head problems and did not see them.
I think they looked great in battle, especially on Kashyyk
I like how they are different ages, some bodies (posture) looking older than others as well as bald spots.
I especially love the way Obi Wan presents himself just before battle as well as when he first ignites his saber and can't forget the 2 finger point thingy he does.
He looks so confident with the stance as well as when he's looking down on Vader from the ship with his hands on his hips like "hey I'm gonna hand you your ass".
I do wish that there could have been more of Dooku.
His lines from AOTC and ROTS are classic: "you're swords please...let's not make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor".
My fave duel is still Mace/Palpatine.
Also liked the use of TFM music, especially "Duel of the Fates", I mean if you can play Vader's theme every five minutes why not rehash a couple of other great songs?
Also loved Grievous "crush them, make them suffer".
For some reason the third time was the only time the audience applauded at the end.
No matter what movie was made people would have had problems with it.

Well, this is definitely the most emotional SW chapter... and the only one with a truly epic scope. I've never though Gl could pull off tragic stuff so well... but he did and I love it and can't get enough of this movie!

I think I understand where you're coming from.

The battles are infinitely more personal, but the stuff going on around them is epic in scope.

I did not see this anywhere else so I thought that I would bring i up in here.

Did anyone else notice that James Earl Jones was not listed as the voice of Darth Vader? Did he actually do the voice or did they just distort Hayden's? I though that it sounded a slight bit off.

Anyone else notice this?

Saw it again tonight. Yeah, everything was definetly more believable this time around.

-I bought Anakin's rationale for turning.

-The concern I had about a relative lack of build up leading to Anakin's turn during the Windu fight was gone.

-Palpatine's "NOOO, NOOO, NOOO" still felt weird, but that was intentional I suppose. Worked better for me.

-Palpatine's psuedo-acting at the climax of the Mace duel was even more obvious.

-The grunting and breathing was a bit weird still in the "knighting" scene, but I guess his sudden puberty during this entire sequence wasn't quite done.

-Yoda VS Sidious/Anakin VS Obi-Wan is beautifully edited, both scene and soundtrack wise. I just LOVE how "Anakin VS Obi-Wan" leads into "Duel of the Fates" as they fight on the balcony.

-I still think Frankien-Vader worked.

-

No.



No one should have to explain the purpose of that scene. But apparently some people need it.

No offense, but this is one of the most ridiculous complaints I've heard. Ok, the dialogue could be better but what you say would have been totally out of place considering who these characters are. I have enough mundane stuff in my life, I don't want it in the escapist space opera. Not to mention that theirs is not a normal marriage as they've spent much more time apart than together between him fighting and her serving as a senator and now they're together again for the first time in a few months! So I'm totally buying the way Anakin looks at the love of his life and mother of his child and don't understand why anyone has a problem with it.

Man, talk about overanalyzing...





By the way the purpose of that scene wasn't to talk about one or the others' force sensitivities...it was to create a sense of camaraderie and humor in their interaction, thats all. Don't look into it so much.

Remember that this guy has spent decades with this facade of Palpatine the politician. If you were basically hiding your true self for that long it might be a bit awkward when you finally come out of it.

Any true epic has also a personal drama of the characters at its heart. I think it's both personal and epic.

The bulk of that sound is the result of processing McDiarmid's voice through a pitch changing/correction plugin in Pro Tools. Our speaking voice doesn't have as solid a pitch center as our singing voice (which the plugin is really designed to work with) so it sort of jumps all over the spectrum trying to figure out what the pitch center is.

It's a really cheap, stock effect. I'm surprised Burtt allowed it in the film, since it's pretty embarrasing, professionally speaking. You don't often see sound designers taking a plugin off-the-shelf and using a preset like that. And Burtt has always gone to great lengths to combine new elements in original ways. But, whatever... Glad you liked it.

_Mike









5

I have a little experience with Pro Tools but not much...it seems odd to me that they would choose to use a music editing and recording tool to mess around with a speaking voice...is that something that is done often in sound editing for films?

It's not just the battles or new locations. It's the finale of the long exhausting galactic conflict (wish it was more covered in the movies), the crumble of a thousand year old regime and destruction of the Jedi Order. It's like the end of the era and it does feel like a vision of the past, of the the more civilized and decadent times. I've had some problem with the lack of dramatic tension in the first two prequels but here I love that GL went for the more classical feel.

Did anyone here think that Mace was wrong for wanting to "end this once and for all" and kill Palp. I mean he was completely "unarmed", weak and his face looked like a falaxian sea goat. Does anyone here think he was wrong and Anakin right because "it is not the Jedi way?". What would Yoda have done had he had Palp in that situation? I dount he would have tried to murder Palps like Mace did. I don't blame Anakin at all for cutting his muderous hand.

Pretty much exclusively, now. A few old dogs still keep the Synclavier around, and use reel-to-reels for some old school stuff. But even the classic OT "ring modulation/LFO" stuff used for everything from R2 to the ship-to-ship com is done via plugin now. And I have to say, it's not as cool. I get way cooler stuff out of old analog gear, like the vocoder, than through their modern digital versions. But doing it all in a Pro Tools workstation makes it a lot easier, and more flexible, since the effect is live, not printed, so you can tweak it until the last second.

And Pro Tools isn't a music editing and recording tool, it's an audio recording/editing/processing tool... it's just used a lot for music as well. But every 5.1 theatrical mix I've ever done was through basically a giant Pro Tools rig, or several linked together.

_Mike








4

I completely agree with You Nibor. Palp is the ultimate planner, however, I am talking about Mace's intention. If Anakin didnt get to Palp in time somehow, wouldnt Mace have been wrong to Kill him. Isnt that a dark side move? Mace always seems so pissed off. Negative energy I sense in him.

Looks like someone else is as easily fooled as Anakin.

Wrath, all I am saying is that although it was a set up. Mace wouldhave really killed Palp's ass and that would not be right for a Jedi Master to do in violation of the Jedi code.

As easily as a falaxian sea goat.


_Mike








3

I submit to your wisdom Lord Nibor. A sith moment Mace was having indeed. A borderline sith personality he has. The auido book did shed some light on his ability to use negative energy but you are right he was no match for Pals but struggled with his intentions none the less.

Where is the part of the Jedi Code that says "killing Sith Lords is a no-no?"

I mean, who cares if they're unarmed? Would it also have been equally wrong if Mace had immediately followed through with a killing blow, instead of letting him sit there for a sec?

I would think it'd be bad for a Jedi to kill anything that wasn't a threat, but a Sith Lord, disarmed or no...

Sometimes I wonder if we all watched the same movie...............

higher ground?

didn't have a problem w/ this scene and it worked for me but, did you see how much higher ground maul had on obi1 at the end of TPM?

maybe maul was caught off guard and anakin did kinda screw himself by announcing his skill (next move).





edit: answered my own question.

I've seen the movie three times now, and I have to say that I completely buy Anakin's fall to the dark side. I had trouble with it at first, but I noticed a few things that I missed the first two times. Anakin's turn feels more believable to me because it seems painful for him. The scene in the chacellor's office right after Mace dies is proof. He seems very reluctant when he says, "I will do what you ask". And when he tells Palps to "Just help me save Padme," you can tell that that is the only reason he is doing this. He knows he's just done something terrible.

Now before I get blasted for this,let me just say that I know he kills all the Jedi, including the younglins, in the temple. This seems like proof that he has turned willingly. But, he is just doing it because Palps ordered him too, and he needs the Emperor to help him save his wife.

There is another piece of evidence that proves he is still conflicted. After he kills the separatist leaders, we see him standing overlooking the lava on Mustafar, and we see that he has shed tears. I think this shows that he knows he has become a monster, and that his turn to the dark side was more out of nescessity. I mean, he couldn't go back to the Jedi after helping to kill Mace, now could he.

This to me makes Anakin's turn more believable because George has thrown in some key reminders that tell us that this was not easy for Anakin at first. Its not until Padme arrives with Obi-Wan on Mustafar that he fully embraces his turn to the dark side.

I was just watching the clip posted on another thread of when Anakin cuts off Mace's hand...and you know what I love? The little face change that Palpatine makes right before he blasts him with lightning again. He looks up, smiles in a satisfactory sort of relieved way...then suddenly his face contorts into a mask of hate and he screams his "POWER" line as he zaps Mace. Very cool.

Another thing about that scene is how much of a bitch Mace is when he gets his hand cut off. Even Luke didn't scream that much.

Something that I've been wondering since i've seen Ep III twice now...

Why is it that in 20 years, Vader never found Obi Wan? Obi Wan basically had to come to him on the Death Star in IV.

Was Obi Wan really THAT hard to find on Tatooine?

Wouldn't Vader be able to sense Obi Wan, no matter where he was in the galaxy? Anakin saw Obi Wan walk away from him. Obi Wan might have thought Anakin dead, but for Vader to NEVER go after Obi Wan, the reverse would have had to be true.

Why? Why Why?

pick a good reason and go with it.

It ain't ever gonna be explained.

It doesn't have to be explained.

Do you guys think if Anikin made the light choice that padme would have still died in birth? i don't think she would have, his dreams where preminitions of what would happen, him persuing trying to find a way to save her only killed her. or maybe she would have died either way

seems like a good topic to discuss.

Good explanation by ThundaJelly. And not only that, but you could ask also; why didn't Sidious continue any pursuit of Yoda?

Because those were the only two Jedi left, they were simply hiding and were no threat to him. They were as good as dead.

In A New Hope, Tarkin indicates they knew Obi-Wan had been in hiding. "Surely he must be dead by now..."

****

I think Palpatine is a pretty thorough guy. He wouldn't want any loose ends. And Vader would still have the desire for revenge, which would just supplement it. I believe they would want to eliminate any threat at all. As far as why they wouldn't search on Tatooine I am at a loss...I would think they would search there early, knowing Anakin's only "family" was there. So it is either suspension of disbelief for the viewer or they wanted to "hide in plain sight" as it were, which I would think is a bit dangerous...at least as far as Obi-Wan is concerned.

Maybe Anakin just wanted to do him the same curtesy that obi did him. obi was to kill anakin, but couldnt bring himself to do it, perhaps that garnered a pass from vader.

or maybe vader decided he didnt wanna have to have his artifical limbs re-attached.

you know, i was just talking about that with some people the other day. there have been documented cases, especially with seniors, where one spouse dies, and the other, in good health, basically grieves themself to death... i thought it was a cool touch.

i think this is the ultimate irony, Anakin went to the dark side to try and save padme, but what he needed to save her from was himself going to the dark side. so if he didn't try to save her, she would be safe.