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VT-16



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 943
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
VT-16 wrote:
No, Lucas was ok with having them there, it was Filoni who didn't like it and then Lucas changed his mind.

Alexrd wrote:
Lucas didn't change his mind because of Dave.

I never said he did. Filoni didn't like it (which is strange, because she should know about the Sith spirits in the EU, which he claims to know so much about) and later on Lucas changed his mind, after initially changing his mind.

Mr. Green

Also, the dialogue you refer to is from a cut scene, a scene that is therefore not a part of the movies, which is my point. Lucas just doesn't stay consistent at all, except for this. So far, not one instance in Lucas's films or series says there's no such thing as a Sith spirit. What we do have, is the Dark Side manifesting on Dagobah, that's just a small step away from having actual Sith manifesting.

And what do you call the Son channelling different Dark Siders in his speech? Isn't that a very noncorporeal and spiritual aspect, even of the Dark Side?
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Alexrd



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tarkin's EW exclusive clip.

VT-16 wrote:
I never said he did. Filoni didn't like it (which is strange, because she should know about the Sith spirits in the EU, which he claims to know so much about)


What's that suppose to mean? That he has to like everything he knows about the EU? I'm glad he and George didn't, because Sith are not supposed of being capable to appear as Force Ghosts.

VT-16 wrote:
and later on Lucas changed his mind, after initially changing his mind.

Mr. Green


More like :heavymetal: .

VT-16 wrote:
Also, the dialogue you refer to is from a cut scene, a scene that is therefore not a part of the movies, which is my point. Lucas just doesn't stay consistent at all, except for this.


Where didn't he stay consistent?

VT-16 wrote:
So far, not one instance in Lucas's films or series says there's no such thing as a Sith spirit. What we do have, is the Dark Side manifesting on Dagobah, that's just a small step away from having actual Sith manifesting.


I know.

VT-16 wrote:
And what do you call the Son channelling different Dark Siders in his speech? Isn't that a very noncorporeal and spiritual aspect, even of the Dark Side?


It is. After all, we're talking about a character that represents the Dark Side.
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VT-16



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 943
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alexrd wrote:
What's that suppose to mean? That he has to like everything he knows about the EU? I'm glad he and George didn't, because Sith are not supposed of being capable to appear as Force Ghosts.
Yes, they are. Lucas opinion, which was cut from the film, ultimately doesn't matter. Sith ghosts are as of yet, still canon in SW until LFL retroactively declares them non-canon.

VT-16 wrote:
More like :heavymetal: .
So the crux of your arguments is just that you don't like it, therefore not canon. Fine, but that's like, your opinion, man. :meatwad:

VT-16 wrote:
Where didn't he stay consistent?
You really want all the different things he's done over the years? Cutting out Padme's parents in AOTC, adding them into ROTS without explanation. Adding, removing additional effects to a scene (Luke's scream in ESB, Greedo shooting first). Removing then adding Biggs' scene with Luke in the hangar. There's much, much more. As well as changing ideas and adding unneccessary references, like the Chosen One. The guy is not consistent and can turn on a dime.

VT-16 wrote:
It is. After all, we're talking about a character that represents the Dark Side.
Fine, so you like spirital aspects of Sith/Dark Side, but not ghosts, for some reason? Eh.
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Alexrd



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
VT-16 wrote:
Yes, they are. Lucas opinion, which was cut from the film, ultimately doesn't matter. Sith ghosts are as of yet, still canon in SW until LFL retroactively declares them non-canon.


Lucas opinion is still present in the RotS novel, comic, etc...

VT-16 wrote:
So the crux of your arguments is just that you don't like it, therefore not canon. Fine, but that's like, your opinion, man. :meatwad:


But I'm not talking about my personal canon. Although my support to the final opinion serves both.

VT-16 wrote:
You really want all the different things he's done over the years? Cutting out Padme's parents in AOTC, adding them into ROTS without explanation.


Does it require explanation? If you know they are Padmé's parents, there's no need to explain anything. If you don't know, then they are just a couple more people in the crowd.

VT-16 wrote:
Adding, removing additional effects to a scene (Luke's scream in ESB, Greedo shooting first). Removing then adding Biggs' scene with Luke in the hangar. There's much, much more. As well as changing ideas and adding unneccessary references, like the Chosen One. The guy is not consistent and can turn on a dime.


Changing his mind doesn't mean that he is inconsistent. The inconsistency doesn't exist when the OOT is not canon anymore.

VT-16 wrote:
Fine, so you like spirital aspects of Sith/Dark Side, but not ghosts, for some reason? Eh.


Well, the Son referencing the future with Palpatine's voice doesn't make Palpatine capable of being a ghost. Since the Mortis family represents the Force, putting two Sith lords advicing the Son, makes them above the Force. Which doesn't make much sense.
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VT-16



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 943
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lucas is inconsistent because the SEs exist. Changing aspects of movies, even beyond effects, means he changed his mind. It means he's inconsistent. That's all. And the novels and comics are not the same as the movies, ultimately.

You also seem to miss that the movies claim the Force controls you and you can control the Force, like symbiosis. The scene could have been done with that in mind. Or the fact that they're in a realm beyond time and space means weird shit can happen. Who knows, maybe they could have been representatives of his own subconscious mind or something. We'll never know, either way and I personally think that's a mistake. :)
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