she might be referring to Bail Organa's wife, who could have died when she was very young. I doubt she'd remember Padmé. Memory starts kicking in at your 3rd month.

Maybe some will consider this idea to be silly, but the twins didn't exactly came to life in the moment of birth. Who knows what level of awerness such strong with the Force babies could have in the belly of their mother. What if Leia had already some vague consciousness of Padme's feelings even some time before the story of Episode III begins and years later associated the qualities of kindness and sadness with those memories but thought them to be from early childhood.

I think that's very possible, Ascovel. But I also think it's very easily explained, if it needs to be explained at all, when we see that Leia has some telepathic connection at the end of ESB.

They should flesh out the more important mysteries in a TV series.. like the origins of blue milk, where Obi-Wan got his brown turtlenecks in the desert, and why Chewbacca didn't get a medal.

this is gonna just be a plot hole... continuity error whatever...

Leia was obviously referring to Padme, because as mentioned Luke asks "...your real mother?".

There is no way Leia could remember Padme from one glance straight after her birth...

and even the whole 'she has the force' argument doesn't really work. Leia says "she died when I was very young"... no shit Leia! 2 seconds young even!

continuity error!

Luke: Liea, do you remember your mother, your real mother?
Leia: Just a little bit...

Leia is talking about Padme... everything here is fine.

Leia: ...she died when I was very young.

This is where it gets weird. You'd expect very young to mean three or four years old... not three or four seconds. This gives the impression she may be talking about her adoptive mother, the Queen of Alderaan. But this contradicts my first point.

Luke: What do you remember?
Leia: Just images really, feelings.
Luke: Tell me.
Leia: She was very beautiful, kind but... sad. Why are you asking me this?

This is great I think if we're going with the one glance after her birth... if we say that she is strong in the Force and remembers that one glance I think this is a great line. (though kind might be stretching it)

Luke: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.

Why not? Surely he would have gotten at least a glance as well... even if she was dead.

I think there's a lot of contradiction going on here

It isn't really a big deal, but I just know it's gonna bug me...

maybe in the archival editions the ROTJ line will be changed to

Luke: Do you remember your mother, you're real mother?

Leia: [old bum voiceover] No, She died when I was born, but looked sad.

Luke: I have no memory of my mother, I never knew her.

Also, I think that a difference between Luke and Leia is that, well, Luke was taught to forget his past and Leia, most likely, was told stories about her mother and etc, etc, etc, etc. I mean, maybe Leia had seen pictures or videos and such, too. It's like when you ask a younger sibling if they remember that one time at that one place and they say yeah, but in reality they only remember it because they've seen pictures and have heard the story millions of times....and of course there's the force.

that's a very good point... Owen didn't want Luke to remember any of his family's past.

I think that's a good explanation...

it's just the "she died when I was very young" part that has me now. Although as mentioned, Bail may have lied about the circumstances of Padme's death (well he must have since Leia didn't know about Vader and Luke) and in fact the time of it...

What SeekUp52577 said is exactly what I was trying to say several times before.

Selective memory.

Yeah. It is kinda exactly what I said. Why didn't anyone see this before? Coulda saved me the writing.

Well, Lucas said that by A New Hope the troopers are being taken from different hosts than just the original Fett. That's why there's different heights and voices, etc, etc.

Edit: I read that in an Insider.

I always thought most stormtroopers were recruits from that 'academy' that Luke talked about. The purpose of the clones was to create an army in secret.

Well see, I think there were real people as troopers and those who performed well were probably cloned...I guess...maybe...agh...

Leia is talking about Breha, not Padme. Whether Luke says "your real mother" or not is unimportant. Leia DOES NOT KNOW she was adopted. Nowhere does she say she is the adopted daughter of Bail Organa. To her, Bail and Breha Organa are her parents. So, when Luke says: "your real mother", if we are talking about "bad dialogue", then Leia should have replied: "I don't have a fake mother, Luke. Watchoo talkin' about? Why would you ask it like that?" Instead she just talks about her adopted mother assuming she is her real mother. But, the real question and the thing I always wondered about is: So what if Luke never remembered his mother. What does that have to do with Darth Vader being their father? Wow Luke! You don't remember your mother but Leia does! That makes it easier to tell her she kissed her brother!!1! ??? It's all a very wierd conversation to begin with.

Right!

And all these shitty new recruits were stationed where they would see no action... where no enemy in his right mind would (or could) ever go: The Death Star.

I think we're onto something here!

(I love the ability of sheep to fill in plotholes in their favorite movies. We're like dramatic antibodies.)

Indeed. I'm not one to complain about dialogue or conversation (actually I don't complain a lot anyways) but I always found this conversation quite odd.



Maybe...



Hah! I never thought of it that way.

you're a tool.

greatest post ever

He might be an idiot, but his grammar was correct.

Genetic drift. Those Jango clones are gettin' long in the tooth...

Ha, I know, TheRedSkull. It was simply something funny to me. You have to realize though, you're in a forum predominately pro-prequel and what you're saying is typical basher drivel that is said many, many times. Just be ready for the backlash.

Back to topic, of course there will be tiny inconsistancies as the movies were not fleshed out from the beginning. Ideas change through time.

I must add though, Obi-Wan's dialogue in Ep VI about Anakin to Luke is consistant with his certain p.o.v. It seems as though Obi did train Anakin from the start as opposed to Yoda and other Jedi doing basic lightsaber training, etc that all beginning Jedi seem to recieve. (Granted, Anakin did start out older than most Jedi) Obi just left out a few tidbits that would just complicate things more for Luke and his understanding of his place at that point in his life. I'm sure he learns of everything in due time.

When you're right, you're right. With that kind of scrutinizing, I'm sure one could find plotholes with anything.

Let's take a look at your points:

2&3: These events clearly happen after the movie....get over it...
4: The emperor says he's unarmed.....the keyword is "says"....we have absolutely no idea if he is or isn't....so what's the big deal whether he's armed or not?
5: Who in the hell gives a @#%$?
8: Probably because he was busy trying to destroy Han Solo and 3-P0 was a scrapheap on Chewie's back
9: See number 5 and also realize that there's only so much a person can do in 2 hours and 20 minutes....
10: Hmm...let's see...BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN THIRTY @#%^ING YEARS BEFORE THE PREQUELS WERE!
11: I'm pretty sure he's referring to the simple fact that he lost Anakin to the Dark Side....

The only one I could really see where you have a point is number 1. The rest are pretty much up to interpretation, and to tell you the truth, I don't think anyone cares but you.

Give George Lucas a break....he made the films for both himself and his fans....if you can't get over that, I don't see how you can even consider yourself a true Star Wars fan.

B.T.W. I haven't read the script yet, so I don't even know if numbers 1,6, or 7 are even legitimate to argue about....

boltzman84, is that quotation from GL real?

Well, I know that at MF.com it's taboo to mention anything pertaining to SuperSh_dow, but that's where I got it from...I'm pretty sure it's a real quote though, if you don't believe me, you can check the Lucas Interview Archives at his site....regardless of whether it's true or not, it is rediculous to criticize somebody like Lucas who has poured his soul into making these movies for the fans...

alright heres my first post long time lurker

re skull i dont think u read the script if u dont know why he turnred to the darkside

and how the hell do u know palps was armed in jedi
he might not of thought he ever needed it agian

if he doesnt help plapls he thinks mace will kill him
and then he wont be able to save padame

You have to kinda understand though that I'm talking in generalities...obviously Lucas doesn't hate you specifically, but he does have a low tolerance for people who don't have mercy on the work that he does. I guess the only point I was trying to get across in my hasty reply was that it's insulting to point out dumb flaws (most of which could be answered offscreen), especially when everything that GL does is for the fans.

Anyways, that's all I'm gonna say on it.....

Wow. The idiocy on this thread is at TFN level right now. I think it's time for DP to do some Heavy Moderating(tm).

Wow, I really thought RedSkull was joking when he posted all those questions. I guess he was serious?

Anyone who has paid any attention at all to these movies can easily see the answers, if they have to be asked at all in the first place (which, imo, they don't).

Maybe you've just spent too much time with Star Wars? Maybe it's time to become a Trekkie? I don't know, but I do know that all of those questions have been answered over and over again here and on countless other forums, only to be followed by another "but y izn't boba fet in teh movi?" or some stupid ass shit.



Boltzman84 and Hipnotik nailed it, by they way. Their posts you must read.

I just think Redskull is an idiot with no imagination. He must have been losing braincells as he continued to type his post. My god, he should be banned for actually being serious about those posts. I thought he was joking in the beginning as well. Let him stay though, he might be fun.

As for his "plotholes"

#2- Who ever said there was a real working or close relationship between the two of them anyway. Ben's job was to watch over Luke, not go clubbing with the Lars'.

#3- He's refering to becoming a Jedi. In Luke's time the force & the Jedi order is refered to as a ancient religion & the Jedi as sorcerer's. So to Owen fighting in the clone wars & against the seperatists could be what he considered a "crusade".

#4- Dealing with thousands of Jedi as opposed to 1 or 2 is slightly different, especially when you're trying to rid the galaxy of them for you to take comlete control. Do you think that Sidious is going to use words of seduction against 4 battle hardened Jedi masters armed with lightsabers?
Lightning might work for 1 or 2, but not 4. Plus after all his years of waiting to take power & all that training why not bust out some moves on the unsuspecting fools? It's what gives the evil guy pleasure right?

#8- Ok, how many years has it been since he last saw 3-PO? Also how many protocol droids are there in the galaxy during that time that look like 3-PO? Probably millions.

Forgot #5- Do you know that the Roman army was made up almost entirely of conscripts? Any time they conquered a land or people they conscripted people to become part of the Roman legions. Now Rome was an empire, so if you have a entire galaxy under your control would'nt you do the same? What better way to keep the planets you control in your grasp than to have it's people working for you.


I can't believe I even replied to that post. It was just so terrible that I had to say something.

Just stop giving it attention. It's clearly retarded, so enough of wasting webspace.

Connected with her through the Force as a baby. Luke didn´t.


It is explained in Ep. IV. Owen heard what happened to Anakin and didn´t want Obi-wan to ruin another kid.


It´s the Clone Wars. Anakin went to rescue him in AOTC, remember? Ended up fighting in a galactic war.


"Smart and devious" means "incapable of fighting"? Riiiight.

As we saw, he didn´t need to whip out a lightsabre, even if he had one on him. Luke went down easy.


That was pointless and stupid. People can get drafted or volunteer, you know. It´s what happens in militaries in the Real World.


He starts to distrust the Jedi Council when they spy on his buddy, the Chancellor. And later wants to use Palpatine to keep Padme alive and bring order to the galaxy. He combines these reasons and turns.


He needs him alive. (See above) He is also weakened as he is wounded and put in the suit. Thus no longer able to fight Palpatine without fear of losing his own life.

And 24 years is a long time, people can and will change as the years go by, it´s called "development". In stories like this, it´s called "character development".


There are millions of protocol droids in the galaxy, how would he be able to know it was his?


Since Yoda is nearby, and he was close to him at his birth, I´d say he feels Yoda´s presence.


Why bring a newborn down to an unknown planet? Why not say goodbye in space? (Like they will be doing in the film.)


Yes he has, the Clone Wars, the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin (both will be further explored in ROTS), Padme (mother of the twins), Anakin going out on a crusade (the Clone Wars) because of Obi-Wan, the coming of the Dark Times etc...


Why would he tell him about Qui-Gon? Other than a possible reference to him being a part of the Force (which Luke feels anyway), there is no reason. And nothing has been directly contradicted in the Prequels:

- Anakin piloted pod-racers and went up against opponents with in-human skills. He learned how to fly a starfighter in minutes.

- He sensed that the boy was dangerous and since he already scored high on the Midi-count, he could be a serious threat.

- He wanted to train him himself, to ensure the boy grew up to be a good Jedi. This is partly because of his promise to Qui-Gon, but also because he genuinly felt he could do it (he says several times at the end that he WILL train the boy, no matter what. That Anakin WILL be a Jedi). This is all his own doing, even if you blame Qui-Gon.


Yes, he does. They are both tempted to give in to their anger, goaded by the actions of their opponents (Tuskens, Sith).


None of the things you wrote are really plotholes. One or two might be a bit iffy to explain, but none are truely unexplainable (which is a characteristic of a plot-hole).


Everything is perfectly clear to me.


One of my problems with a lot of people is their inability to think clearly and view alternatives. It´s just the same old tired catchphrase. This is especially true with fancommunities, I swear, some editorials are like nerd fluff pieces, nothing unexpected, nothing new...

Thank you for those two points in particular. I have tried to say that for years now, and I usually get a blank stare.

i can't understand the reason for so many moronic threads all of a sudden...

perhaps, now that we know everything about ROTS, ppl are just spoiling for TFN-esque bitch-fests?

i don't know, just randomly psycho-analysing here.....

MF thrived on spoilers and pics, now that that´s gone, it´s -time!

They better pray for insiders when the two tv series get into pre-production.

As far as the birth of the twins is concerned: maybe Lucas changes THE FOUR IMPORTANT WORDS in the final cut ("it's a GIRL/BOY" - "LEIA/LUKE") and the scene as we know it now is just the way it is in order to create confusion - this would leave a minor surprise in the very final cut.

Do I make sense?

Back to this question - they suck in IV, V, and VI because they're 40-50 yrs old now!

There are sites out there devoted to sneeze fetish. This is the internet, where anything can seem worthy of time and effort. Especially hoaxes.

Maybe the DS I and Cloud City stormtroopers received certain orders to NOT kill the enemies...
The Hoth Snowtroopers were pretty effective I'd say. Same for the Endor troopers, who were fought by Ewoks in superior numbers - until (as explained in the novelization) Chewie captured an AT-ST walker and turned the tide of the battle.

Another explanation would be a lack of resourses for extensive battle training programms in the times of civil war. Use your imagination, Star Wars is a fantasy franchise after all.

The most honest answer I could give you is that in AotC and RotS they aren't fighting the good guys (well kinda in RotS) and in IV-VI they are. That's just how movies are

I think that is the key element that's lacking at the mo.

I find it a bit surprising that so many people keep insisting on the importance of the ROTS birth scene in explaining this. I always thought this neat little mystery was covered up already in ESB itself.

Here are the bits of dialogue from different moments of ESB that put together explain it (I'm quoting from memory, so they may feel a little rough):

1) Luke: "seems familiar though..., like something from a dream...".

2) Yoda: "Through the Force you will see many places, the future, old friends..."

To obvious to be true?
I guess back in 1980 the audience could feel unsure if any dreams can qualify as Force visions.
After the prequels I think people shouldn't be.


There is another (thing worth pointing out):

1) Luke: "I feel almost like..."
Yoda: "Like what?"
Luke: "Like we're being watched."

2) Yoda: "This one long have I watched. All the time he has looked away to the future, to the horizon. Never kept his mind on, where he was, what he was doing, mmhh? Adventure...pah...Excitment...pah..."

I'm not 100% certain if it was intentional but I felt this makes a nice joke about Luke not only being able to dream images of his future visit to Dagobah, throughout his years on Tatooine, but also to subconciously sense Yoda watching him through the Force and years later upon finding Yoda he impulsivly finishes the above quoted sentence with a dead right description of one of the strongest feelings connected to his past visions of Dagobah and Yoda while not even noticing it.

Good point, Ascovel. I'm afraid some people have decided that the OT movies themselves cannot for some reason already contain these "explanations" they so desparately seek. As said before, Owen and Obi-Wan are briefly seen together in ROTS, then in ANH they're relationship or lack thereof is spoken of briefly.
And in ESB, the "familiar" thing about Degobah is proven to be not only Yoda's presence, but the scary shit that lies in the cave Luke explores later.

Simply WATCHING the fucking movies is explanation enough.

I believe we've all been avoiding the biggest question in the star wars universe. What exactly was palpatine doing the whole first 3/4ths of rotj when he was sitting in his chair on the 2nd deathstar? I belive he played tiddlywinks with those royal guards, but thats just my theory.

Stroking his face slugs.

Actually, if anything, I think the prequels have increased my appreciation for Return of the Jedi. Back in 80 when we found out darth vader was luke's father I could go along with that. In 83 when we found out Luke and Lea were brother/sister I initially thought that was a real groaner. Made things too convenient for a tidy ending and I thought it shrank the scope of the movies down to a pretty small neighborhood but now that the entire story has been revealed it makes MUCH more sense and I'm perfectly happy with the whole thing.

The prequels have been far from Shakespearan and contain their faults but I'm not going to yell at an apple for not being an orange. If I want shakespear I'll read Macbeth. If I want a couple of hours of awesome space fantasy I'll check out star wars.

It's fun to nitpick at time...wittle away the hours til the next cool star wars event arrives with arguements and apologetics and speculations...but after a while the nitpicking can get old and pointless and we have to realize that we're discussing a simple entertainment. So come on, y'all...move along, move along...

Well-said MilkMan. And I agree with the title of this thread, cause I have found the final piece to the puzzle.....

Redskull IS ss!

But yeah, stick a fork in it, its done!

They kicked ass inside the Tantive IV and Echo Base, they were even winning on Endor, when Chewie highjacked an AT-ST and the Ewoks pulled out log-traps (note, the AT-ST is like an overblown Humvee, so it´s not a high-end model of armored vehicle anyway, don´t blow any gaskets over logtraps hitting it )

And, yes, on the DS and Cloud City, they were supposed to let them escape and fall into Vader´s traps...

Besides that, the clones will get their asses kicked by Yoda and Obi-Wan in ROTS, so don´t hype them up just yet.