...but if they'd given us a CD quality version, I wouldn't have HAD to jack it and host it for free - AND i would've got my preverbial moneys worth

So it's all circular-reasoning.

It's a good piece of music, just poor quality and an insult to a great composer to have a 'tease' when you're not doing the music justice!

I was expecting a lot more then that. I hope they update that with more songs before the damn thing leaks to the internet. How long until it leaks, 2 weeks?

Is he in this movie?


I think he wants his choir back....

Very nice. Thank's to all of you who made it available.

I was going to let this go, but there are few people here with good musical instincts who deserve to know they're right.

The main melody to this cue is indeed very similar to a cue from the Harry Potter films. (Hedwig's Theme). Below is a comparison of the melody from this Grevious cue, and the melody from Hedwig's Theme.

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/E3_HP_Compare.jpg




Both melodies are heard initally in E minor, and share almost the same melodic range. The sections marked in red are note-for-note identical until the end of the phrase, where the Ep3 cue extends a whole step higher before continuing to the concert G and then to the root. (For sake of reading, both cues are presented here in concert pitch, with all accidentals marked, no articulations).

You can also see the extreme similarities in stepwise motion. All in all, these are melodies similar enough to have easily been found together in the same cue. They share not only notes and harmonic progression, but they're similar in spirit as well.

I don't present this to undermine either cue; they're both modern-day Williams, and nobody should be surprised by their similarities. But those who heard such similarities were absolutely dead-on right, and just didn't have any proof to support their instincts. So here it is. Good ears, guys.

_Mike

*high fives Mike*

Yeah! That whole score comparison was so Musically/StarWars-geeky I LOVE IT!

Classic.

A MUCH better, well thought-out response than the usual "sounds like other Williams compositions."
**nod of respect**

Thanks to everyone who took the time to put up the rips of it up.

Very interesting mverta....

it does sound like that :P

first thing that came to mind was indeed HP....oh well

Hey Mike-
You a musician? I don't think someone who wasn't at least familiar with music would know what those terms mean. That's pretty cool you either did that or at least found it.

Yes, I've been composing professionally for 17 years.

Thanks,

_Mike

you stole my post, Mike...

In what field Mike? I'm currently working on my bachelors in composition...

Wow that's awesome. I guess despite our previous little spat we have something in common (although I have no resume in terms of music...been playing sax and bass for about 14 years though). Mind if I inquire a bit about what you have done? PM me if you wish.

Film and television, and I have a couple albums out. Film work is at www.mikeverta.com

If you need anything else, PM me so the thread doesn't get hijacked...

Thanks!

_Mike

Once again, we have been fucked by hyperspace

Otherwise great track.

Very cool to see the two melodies compared with notation, instead of just random comments...

I'm also starting my bachelors in music comp, finishing up my freshman year at University of Idaho.

Back on topic, hearing this snippet (cause that's what it really is) make me a very happy musician. This is going to be the most operatic of the SW scores, which I don't mind at all. I am really digging the rhythm that the chorus and trumpets are playing, its much more dynamic than a lot of other stuff Williams has done in the past, IMO.

This is the stuff that made me want to start writing music two years ago...

exactly

I love the track! Not exactly the track I expected, but it's nice, VERY nice and yeah ofcourse it sounds like Harry Potter, that's just Williams' style.

I think it sounds more like Minority Report or A.I.
It has the darker more ominous feel of those scores, imo.

Looking forward to hearing the whole thing soon!

no need for yousendit/youshareit links:

http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/SWIII/SWIII_01_13_60.swf

Hey guys...

Does anyone know if the DVD is coming with all the soundtracks? Amazon doesn't list it...

Back to Lurking,
Oboe

Said it way way better than I could and right on point. Well done, man.

These notes sound undeniably and frigtheningly like the Harry Potter theme. It was quite startling when I heard it at first to be honest, I was like WTF?!@?!?

That aside, I like the track a lot. It's just getting over those few seconds where you think you're in the wrong saga.

the first thing i thought of when i heard this was "something wicked this way comes!"... but i thought that maybe i was crazy. looks like i'm not that crazy afterall.

I just have to say first and foremost that John Williams' scores generally sound like John Williams. He fucking rocks! That's why he does what he does and people pay him good money for it. Think about for a second....same writer.....same intruments, sure some of it will sound similar. But saying this sound like Harry Potter, I think, is rubish! I remember listening to some parts of Harry Potter where I thought it sounded like Star Wars. That's just writing styles...

That being said, I love this piece, even though it's only 60 seconds. The choral part sorta reminds me of Duel. It's not the same but but it makes me think of it whenever that part comes in.

it certainly has an indy/potter feel to it, no doubt, and williams will have to go a LONG way to write any score for any film, let alone a star wars film, that matches his amazing work on Empire. But, unlike many others I was a big fan of the AOTC soundtrack. Not as good as TPM (which is awesome), but better than Jedi certainly. Anyhow, even though I was always there anyway this has made me certain to get my hands on the CD when it hits the stores in May.
Hurry up, hurry up!!

Jedi's score is much better than Clones' in my opinion. Besides tha obvious that it isn't sliced and diced in the film - which I know is not so much JW's fault, but still he wrote less music for Clones than he did for any of the other films.

In Jedi, the music is all thematic:

Jabba's theme
The Emperor's Theme
Luke and Leia's Theme
The Ewok March
The Rebel Fleet

Those, as well as themes from the other films - Han and Leia, Imperial March, Force Theme, Luke's Theme (aka Star Wars Main title), are integrated throughout the score with alterations to make them flow with the action and the drama. Clones' score consists of Across the Stars, filler music and the occasional concert version of other classic themes. Nothing is altered much, except Across the Stars and even IT gets bland when you hear it scene to scene in the exact same way. There are a few other 'themes' if you want to call them that...more like cues, which are either bland or without substance:

Kamino cue
CIS cue
CIS march (heard in the arena)

I think Across the Stars is great, and I think there are a few pieces of filler music that are pretty exciting (Droid Factory track - though it's hacked up), but overall, the Score is pretty weak when you watch the movie scene by scene and try to follow the film musically. There's just nothing there that jumps out at you.

CoGro I completely agree with you. So much of the PT music is just incidental and completely forgettable. I can't even think of anything in the PT as good as when C3p0 and R2 launch in the escape pod in ANH.

CoGro, can't argue with much of that, although I do think its a shame that a lot of what we heard on the CD didn't make it into the film. I think GL chopping and changing AOTC in the editing room AFTER JW has scored it hurt the film. Of all the films he's done I bet he'd love to go back and put that one right. Sony must have been pissed that they didn't get enough coverage to release a double CD like with TPM.
Hopefully this time he'll nail it, although I still enjouy what I heard in AOTC. Good pint about Jedi though, very theme led (which is what JW said he intended to do all through the movies, set up thematic threads).

Well, to be fair, I think TPM has some terrific music. It had alot to live up to first off, since people had associated Star Wars for so long with some of the most recognizeable and popular film music of all time. It did pretty well considering, and JW matched the action on screen fairly well with great themes.

Duel of the Fates has become really popular, and for many, one of the best things of the entire movie. Some other great themes new for the film:

Anakin's Theme
Coruscant Theme
TF March (There's actually 2 of these - I like them both)
The Naboo Security Theme

There's also a few great cues, which I hope are used in ROTS, and should've carried on to AOTC - The Sith whisper (Maul's cue), Jedi Council cue, Tattooine cue (which carries over to AOTC though slightly modified), Gungan City cue. I also think the filler music is thematic and carries pace well. The underwater chase springs to mind as well as the space battle music that was used in the ROTS teaser.

TPM was a great start for the saga musically. If the film was as great (I guess to the masses), then I bet alot of these themes would be made popular, aside from just DOTF. I just don't understand how this was lost in the next film where we're given no theme for Jango, not even a cue that could've resembled Boba's cue from ESB, nothing for Count Dooku (the LEADER of the CIS), no dark music for the Geonosis battle (I'm aware GL told JW not to score this section - but it nonetheless hurts the score of the movie in general), no cue for Geonosis or the Geonosians (that droid factory track could have worked if expanded, but it ended up being a mess in the film) and no music in the nightclub (which could have been very fun and interesting). And DOTF during Anakin's search? Why should I be thinking of a sword fight while Anakin's looking for his dying mother?

The filler music isn't all that great either. The Jango fight music is forgettable, so are the asteroid and the speeder chases.

I feel like a dork tearing apart the score like this, but one of things I love to death about the movies is how music can bring the stories to life, and that's why I really hope ROTS can deliver in this department. A great score will enhance the dramatic and emotional impact of the film, while an average one could make it look like a joke. Average and poorly placed music destroyed alot of AOTC's scenes IMO, taking the viewer right out of the scene. I really don't want that to happen again.

It's too bad that Qui-Gon's theme is really just a short cue. I wish there was a full-fledged version of it. One of the best themes in the entire trilogy.

I wholeheartedly agree, CoGro. Two of the most powerful moments in AOTC are moments that actually used pre-established scenes (I'm thinking before Ani's swoop bike ride and while in the Lars garage discussing killing the Tuskin Raiders). Hell, even Across the Stars transformed the "I truly, deeply love you" moment into something memorable. But the themes are noticably absent from the rest of the film... I'm really hoping that there's a solid set of two or three threads that pull ROTS together. Maybe that's why the Hyperspace preview was such a letdown, because I was anticipating whetting my appetite for said threads and was treated to more of the AOTC-like transitional music.

I forgot that one

That is a terrific piece that should have indeed been used more.

Any chance we will get more tracks,? That menu where we choose the track that is there now is terribly empty.

AOTC was crap except for Across the Stars. TPM had some absolutely awesome music. One of the ofton overlooked and possibly my favorite cue from TPM is Anakin is free. It takes place when Anakin is preparing to leave and when he is leaving his mother to become a jedi. At about 3:50 the really good stuff starts, and it never fails to hit the emotional beats. When Anakin says,"Will I ever see you again?" there is a very cool little subtle choral bit that comes in. IMO this is Jake Lloyd's best acting moment in the movie as well. Watching this scene again yesterday, when Shmi puts her hand to Anakin's cheek, It seemed very hard to watch considering what Anakin does later in his life.

Qui Gon's Funeral is right above Anakin is free as my favorite cue in TPM and all of star wars really, next to The Force Theme. I'm under the impression that a new version of Qui Gon's Funeral with female choral peices is being used for Padme's funeral. The first time I saw the above angle pic of Padme with flowers in her hair, I listened to that cue and was on the brink of tears.

I agree, a lot of good cues go unmentioned. In AOTC, I love the track where Anakin makes a vow at his mother's grave.

Especially the cue when he says "I will miss you...sooo much"

The other problem with AOTC was the "miscues". The TF Droid march when Obi-Wan is watching the Clone Army? Why? And Yoda's theme in the droid factory? Huh? Too bad they didn't use that "Stormtrooper" theme from ANH to represent the clones in AOTC. It would have been a great musical foreshadowing. Not to mention that would have added something to a theme that gets tossed aside for the Imperial March in ESB & ROTJ. And don't get me started with the lack of new music for the battle on Geonosis.

As long as the music for ROTS fits thematically I'll be happy. This new cue sounds great. But if it's just so much filler music (like the Jango fight on Kamino and the Asteroid chase) then this new track, as awesome as it is, it really isn't worth a damn.

Everything from Dooku's landing on Coruscant to the end of the film is perfect. It's just everything that comes before it that's a mess.

The TF Droid march when Obi-Wan is watching the Clone Army?

I agree with you on most of your points but I thought this was done on purpose. I don't remember if it was an offical source or just speculation but I think the reasoning was that it was supposed to alert the audience (as if they couldn't SEE the similarity to Stormies) that something odd was going on here.

But yeah, we need some overarching themes throughout. As George himself said in the Making of ROTS Book... "It's one thing to be subtle and its another thing to be nondescript."

Yeah, the TF march in the clonetroopers scene was done on purpose to fool the audience into thinking it was a "bad guy" army - "Attack of the Clones" and all that.

The TF theme on Kamino was never designed for that moment. Originally it was for when Obi-Wan approached Geonosis and the atmosphere was filled with TF ships (without their core).

Of course, when GL removed Darth Tyrannus and the Sifo-Dyas connections, it all got fucked up.

I was sure that was it as well when I first heard the soundtrack, Ternian. I'm pretty sure I heard/read somewhere what I posted above, though. I'll try to find it. Whether it's revisionist BS is another matter, of course.

I think they mention what you're talking about on the DVD commentary.

It's also worth noting Yoda's theme is present when Lando and crew are escaping from Bespin in ESB, so it's not just the PT we're talking about.

True. I think a lot of people overlook that. Hell, I didn't notice it for the longest time.

Yeah, you've got a point about the Yoda theme at the end of ESB. Heck, you even hear the "Escape From Bespin" cue early in the movie while the Snow Speeders are searching for Han and Luke. But of course, just because they did that in ESB doesn't make it right for AOTC, either. For that scene with Yoda's theme in AOTC, they were just chopping up random themes to fill sections of movie for which there was no music, because GL had so edited and modified the original cut that Williams' score was nearly worthless (in terms of following the on-screen action). It doesn't seem like that was the case with ESB (I could be wrong though).

In any event, I think there's a big difference between the two movies. ESB is scored nearly start to finish with entirely new music. AOTC has huge sections with music lifted straight from TPM, sections with no music whatsoever, missed opportunities for themes, AND miscues. Basically, the AOTC score you hear in the movie is one huge mess, whereas ESB has maybe a couple of moments where you could nitpick if ya wanted to.


And as far as the TF March for the clonetroopers goes, that's still a miscue in my book -- planned or not. That scene had nothing to do with the Trade Federation and would have been a perfect opportunity to write a "Clonetrooper" theme (as that variation of the Stormtrooper theme from ANH that I mentioned above). I think the "Kamino/Storm" theme would have been a better fit, if they wanted to convey mystery and danger. Besides, if Williams had written a Clonetrooper theme, it could have been interwoven with the TF March for the Geonosis battle, instead of using just TF and DOTF theme variations lifted straight from TPM. Oh well, here's hoping those mistakes aren't repeated for ROTS.

Who even said it was called the Trade Federation theme? It says nowhere on both the orignal soundtrack and the ultimate edition that that cue is in fact called the Trade Federation theme. For all we know, it could be the army or invasion theme. In this case, the droid army and the clone army.

But TF theme or not, I still think it's a wonderful theme and the fact it's brought back in AotC kind of givess you that familair feel. Still, that's no excuse for the poor soundtrack that is AotC. Some of it is really good, but most of it is just.. well.. I dunno, kinda empty compaired to the other SW films. Note that AotC is also the only SW film with only one new theme. I'm glad to hear RotS is back with two themes (Grievous and BotH).

Who even said it was called the Trade Federation theme? It says nowhere on both the orignal soundtrack and the ultimate edition that that cue is in fact called the Trade Federation theme. For all we know, it could be the army or invasion theme. In this case, the droid army and the clone army.

I've seen the theme in question being called both the Trade Federation theme and the Droid March because of how it was used in TPM.


JWFan.net

In TPM that theme represented the droids of the TF. Twisting around to represent something else in AOTC makes no sense whatsoever. I agree that this theme is a welcome connection to the droids in TPM, especially considering the droid foundaries on Geonosis. But it really has no place with the clones on Kamino.

In any event, since this has nothing to do with ROTS, I'll drop the discussion.

I don't see how it's such a glaring "mistake" that they decided to reprise that music for the Clone army. So what? There are parts of Wagner's Ring Cycle when themes overlap, and could therefore be called a "mistake" because I'm so used to hearing it for one event or character and not another.

Maybe, just maybe, it broadens the meaning of that particular motif.

besides, half of the peeps (sadly) don't even care about the music. I remember buying the score to Harry Potter 1 once, and this dude behind me asked his mom "how can there be a soundtrack to HP if there isn't even any music in it"