Because you keep saying I'm against you over and over again. I need to remind you...I'm way better than your bigoted friend, Kyle over there.


Sure, but not worth justifying paying $300 for when many of the extras are already available on Youtube and Disney+.
Not only that I have a folder full of McQuarrie/Chiang/Church artwork on my desktop. I can just spend 10 minutes thumbing through them on my desktop.

This is the stupidest fucking conspiracy theory I’ve read. I’m surprised someone is coming out with info that lines up so much with what I was given, but damn man you don’t even know what I thought of the fucking film.

Exactly! And see below...



Yes indeed...!

As to whether or not we'll "get to the bottom" of this in the "Art of..." book, not necessarily. The preceding looks like VERY convincing circumstantial evidence of Lucas' helping of JJ, but does Disney "have to" acknowledge it? Nope. Especially if they double-burned him, as it certainly appears is the case. If they did this to George, then I feel that it's safe to say that they've lost him forever in regards to future cinematic endeavors. Also, if they formally acknowledge a "Lucas-JJ" version, shit may very well hit the fan by rightfully revenge-seeking Lucas loyalists. At this point in time, I'm certain that Disney just wants to bulldoze this disaster that they created under the rug.

And the level of absolute chaos in this thread - holy cow! I'm only posting in it here now! And Freezus, you REALLY need to dump a couple of buckets of ice down your shorts to hopefully cool you off by a 1,000 degrees or so. You sound like you're on the verge of having a double-heartattack, and you just had your birthday!
What you're doing in this thread...

Seeing this disaster of a film has CHANGED me.
I am no longer "angry" anymore.
Disappointed? Hell yes.

Yet looking back at the last three months' worth of my postings around here, what appeared to be just "anger" was actually an expression of DESPAIR OF IMPENDING DOOM. Well, it arrived. That growing-in-trembles volcano that was only 1 km. away has totally exploded, and there's no way to escape its zone of destruction, so what are we supposed to do about it? RAGE at it? Will raging at those who thought that one was an idiot for accurately warning them that said trembling volcano was going to explode make things better? What the hell good does the meta-raging do? Nothing! One can scream all they want at the volcano and the people who didn't listen, and all that will happen is that a molten boulder lands right inside of one's mouth!

Instead of a molten boulder, fill your mouth with your leftover birthday cake, and dump the leftover ice cream on your head. Not only will that cool you off, but it'll be far healthier for your stressed out heart in the long run.

To another 40 years Freezus!

Kyle, I wasn’t trying to have a heart attack, I was just voicing my disgust with Disney here. Then the conspiracy theorists came out in full force against me and Ki Adi Moonshine.

Also, my birthday was last week.

Happy Birthday, you ol' smoothie.

What conspiracy theory? I just said that reporting on what others think or feel is not credible. And it's not. If two people at my office think I'm fucking a co-worker because they both saw me giving her the eyes a couple of times, it doesn't make it true. If I have a very visible argument with another co-worker, it doesn't mean I hate their guts. That's called gossip.

I also didn't say anything about what you or any of the other leakers actually thought of the film. They're unrelated topics so it's irrelevant.

Seriously, what do I care. If you want to enjoy the drama for what it is, unsubstantiated gossip, I don't really give a shit.

Let's keeps some perspective here.
What's wrong with some "conspiracy theories"...?

After all, I was one of the very few following in disgust the REAL conspiracy "theories" about Jefferey Epstein for a DECADE+. All of it turned out to be true, and so much worse. That man and his madame Ghislaine Maxwell ran, for DECADES, an international child rape slavery ring for the worlds' elites. Presidents, politicians of all levels, judges, lawyers, businessmen of all levels, scientists, Hollywood scumbags, and so many more, eagerly raped the kids they were supplying.

This shit is absolutely real. So real, that Disney-ABC killed its exclusive story on it for three YEARS+, and not only did Epstein's two prison guards take three-hour long naps AT THE SAME TIME, the TWO cameras filming his cell were beyond miraculously BROKEN, and we recently found out that his first "suicide attempt" footage (y'know, when the TWO cameras were STILL WORKING) is ALSO GONE. Oh, and Ghislaine Maxwell has delayed the release of 10,000 sealed documents for at least another month, if not forever.

Then there's THIS nugget of hard truth that NO ONE can logically explain away as NOT being a "conspiracy"... JFK's bodyguard-agents ORDERED off of his limo!

So, I posted the above to prove that CONSPIRACIES are FREQUENTLY TRUE because ALL human beings conspire, that is, conduct "business" in private, keeping it secret, ALL of the time. It happens within every family unit, and it scales up and down from there. And by "down," I mean those times that us KIDS got a friend to hold a chair steady while we secretly raided the cookie jar!

Do we see anything that can be seen as "evidence" of a conspiracy with The Rise of Skywalker?

Well, JediPaxis had the most remarkably accurate "leaks" in film history. Overwhelmingly likely due to Boyega "accidentally" leaving his script in an area where it could be "stolen." I just find this last part hard to believe. I wouldn't be surprised at all if JJ asked Boyega to do this, as he knew that with Disney's interference that this release was going to be a disaster for the franchise on all levels.

If JJ has any genuine respect remaining for Lucas, then Disney's insistence on betraying Lucas AGAIN would've been witnessed first hand by JJ. If such is the case then JJ would've experienced it directly as well. Think of all of the hours that those two worked together, not only laboring, but also shooting the shit about family life, their views of what was happening in the world, etc. In other words, they would've formed a FRIENDSHIP while working together. Not only would this new mega-betrayal hurt, it would also, undoubtedly, make one very, VERY angry.

And whether or not JJ was working with George, how much more likely is it that Iger smooshed his hand into JJ's protesting face and said, "Bud, I AM going to get the film I want!" If JJ had a "better" cut of TRoS, and it was denied to him... Holy cow, that's terrific fuel to create bitterness in a creator, especially when he knows that the legions of angry fans will be throwing turds at him for the rest of his days.

SOMETHING big went down behind closed doors. There's too much smoke to pretend that there isn't a fire. And also, Ki Adi Moonshine's intel seems to mesh with this smoke incredibly well. I think that that would be pretty much impossible to do if there wasn't any truth to it, especially months in advance of its release.

I'm sure that we would all love to get our hands on an ACCURATE retelling of what went down behind the scenes at Disney. Will that day ever come? Maybe Lucas will allow Boyega to read a copy of his film outlines for the sequel trilogy that he wanted done...? lol That would be great - let's pray that it HAPPENS!

Meh, at the end of the day it doesn't matter who owns the rights to Star Wars or Lucasfilm.
Love it or hate.
Without GL's involvement it will never be anything more than big budget fan fiction.

what this all highlights to me is how insanely STUPID Disney was in handling this project. It's obvious by the "story" we ended up with that there was no overall plan for these three movies. They arrogantly thought they could shovel shit in a bag and the world would pick it up and ask for seconds.

TFA was a soft reboot of ANH.
TLJ was just given to some dude to write AND direct, and the secret asshole proceeded to wipe his ass on screen with the characters
TRoS was them scrambling to undo TLJ and put this thing to bed

most of the actors were capable, some even fantastic. The affects were great, but not groundbreaking. This thing lived and died with the writing. It could have been glorious.

Imagine if they actually had a 3 movie outline. Maybe even filmed this whole thing at the same time like LOTR's trilogy... instead we got

it really is a shame

I’ll reply properly on my computer but saying this is being spread because people want to get back at Disney because they hate the new films? That’s a ridiculous conspiracy theory. I’m not saying I had everything right and I wouldn’t believe the insider if they didn’t have specifics I had.

My opinion’matters’ because you’re using blanket statements insinuating I hate Disney SW and spread my info to make them look bad. I didn’t. Been posting with et all for 20 yrs now. I don’t give a shit about you or what you say either but I won’t let shit slide like my leaks were spread to see discontent. I’m surprised he got my info with the climate at LFL.

I was never going to post my info, but I said what the hell because I’ve been here so long posting with a lot these people for two decades re: Star Wars spoilers.

Now to an actual post, I'm separating these two.

I'm surprised at how closely these match up, honestly. Especially the bit on how they would match with some plot points from Lucas' ST ideas. Which from what I hear story-wise matches up with what I have but you can see the way they cut a lot of those elements, kept some of these elements, or re-worked the elements into the film. There's even more tl;dr with my stuff than what darthpsychotic posted, but yeah.

Also, I'm surprised that the behind the scenes stuff is coming out now. Again, posted this months ago with the friction between JJ and the story group, and even KK, JJ had complete creative control (this is what I was told, and he was until Disney took over). THis is why Kiri Hart was buh bye and now works at Rian Johnson's production company (another employee who left LFL too, forget who.) re: story group. Matt Martin confirmed the story group did not work on Episode IX at all.

The Art of TROS was delayed, maybe because they don't want to give an inkling of what may have been, as it shows just how much the film cut out. I'm still interested but I doubt we see much of this stuff. Just IMO. Then there's also the bit of just how deep Lucas collaborated on this film.

But then this guy also has info I don't it seems.
I'd say BS, but it matches.

And for this person to go out and say the Son was going to be the villain originally is something that seems to be so out of left field.
My friend sent this to me and I was like...are you fucking serious?
I was shocked. (don't use reddit anymore)

Also, I know a lot of these fools in TFM and they not ONCE reported on my leaks. like. at all. So trying to say that my leaks and leaks similar to mine are being put out there just to sew discontent and throw shade at Disney Star Wars is such unfounded BS. And even as it comes out now they aren't even posting about how it was leaked months ago, which it was. And they're all aware of it too. They're only outraging now because it makes them money.

Yep and all the behind the scenes stuff that got leaked recently is why I'm fed up with Disney right now after five years of them messing with SW. And can you really blame me?

I wanted a trilogy that was different yet feel Star Wars-ish.. What we got was shit that tried to replicate the OT. It could have been more like the prequels and show the progression of technology, the Dark Side of the Force, and the machinations of the New Republic. I wanted three Episodes that was different yet feel fresh...

This is what George Lucas did with the prequels. He dared to make a fresh trilogy that was different from OT while maintaining the continuity. ST was devoid of that. Because of the shit that went on in the behind the scene stuff, I'm ready to walk away from Star Wars as a whole because I know they'll continue to bastardize Star Wars even more with new movies and shows.

And Ki Adi, you know what's bizarre about this? The fact that people like CoGro, TFM and other conspiracy theorists are going after you and me because they thought we wanted the whole trilogy to fail when it was really Disney that ended up ruining the ST. To be clear I wanted ST to succeed, but I saw the writing on the wall when TLJ came out. I then came out and said Disney will fuck TROS up and guess what they did. Now people are mad at us because we were right about everything LOL.

Yes.
YES! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Huh!
It's amazing how now that the film is out, SO MANY COMMUNITY MEMBERS NOW SOUND LIKE ME!

I like it!
A lot!



YES IT DOES!!! Which is why I said what I did earlier. That's why when I wrote my review, I stated that I was no longer calling dead-Palpatine "Palpatine," but rather "The Dark Son," because I caught how much of it MATCHES to a "T" what you posted.


I wouldn't be SO harsh on them. There is no way that anyone could've posted what they've done for over two years if they weren't TRULY passionate about the original films. Most of their videos had NO LEGS under them till after The Last Jedi left such an awful taste in the fanbase's mouths.

That's when I found them. They wouldn't have a fanbase if what they were saying was easily debunked by looking at the evidence as provided by Disney. The real problem with The Fandom Menace? Disney's movies are akin to a heap of dry kindling. What? They didn't think that people wouldn't notice, and toss a spark its way? Bottom line: a spark is worthless without the perfect fuel, and Kennedy/Abrams/Johnson/Hidalgo provided ample heaps of it.

That said, I don't know why they didn't cite your leaks (although I didn't watch most of their posts anyway, they might've touched on them briefly, IDK). Even if they had trumpeted what you posted, those posts weren't outright hopeful in nature. They likely would've been (rightfully) concerned with the "out of the blue" cinematic introduction of The Dark Son, because Johnson screwed the pooch when he killed Snoke. Look at the GENERAL audience's response to Palpatine's return: they (rightfully) state that it was "out of the blue," and WHY? Because Johnson screwed the pooch when he killed Snoke.

And who knows, maybe they did consider your leaks, and got another source to tell them "No, that ain't happening" and they then ran with what they did.
Ah, who knows?

Whatever.
Star Wars, cinematically, is in ruins, with Lucas' first six films completely shat on.

Where does one go from here?
So, SO sad...


Other than The Fandom Menace going after you (sorry, if they did attack you, I never saw it in one of their videos or even here - and keep in mind I am *not* a TFM "member"), all I can say is... YUP!!!

When I first made this thread I did include "allegations" in the title. Thanks admins for your neat edits to the text body. Appreciated.

I will state that it's very possible that the poster saw the original plot report posted here and used part of it to add credibility for what could be just nonsense. I do agree that The Son would not work very well with mainstream audiences and in all seriousness, it's possible that film we got is held together better by butchering or reimagining the familiar rather than introducing the new.

Like I said in my review in another thread, as it is, TROS already should have been two films, but I think to attempt something on this scale would have been even worse as a single entry regardless of if this is true or not.

I wish we had of just gotten Lucas' vision tbh. Let him to the sequels while Disney focused on other SW projects like Rogue One or The Old Republic, etc.

Also, Ki Adi, do you find this report gives you some relief or helps validate your earlier claims?
Considering how out there they were when compared with the actual film, it's impressive.

I'll note, I do believe Jedi Paxis dismissed a lot of the original report, so it's interesting to see this development.

No idea honestly. I mean where I posted the info were obscure places relatively speaking. The odds of stealing it aren’t super high, but still, never know. We’ll have to see what else comes out.

Kyle, I want to be clear here.. Part of the TFM is from here since they’re the ones who started bashing the prequels over a decade ago.

Did your leaks not get picked up by other media though? I would honestly love to know more if you can share with us. There's a lot of mystery about this movie and it intrigues me.

Ah, okay then. Yeah, I never attacked The Prequel Trilogy. They could be clunky at times, but I didn't see anything that "violated" Star Wars to me. So, those you call The Fandom Menace are the same ones who gave TPT a tongue lashing. Roger. And that ties in to how you blame them for bruising Lucas so deeply that he gave up on actually producing/directing anymore Star Wars films. Got it. Well, there's a lot of truth in that. George himself has stated it more than a few times.

Who could've imagined that Disney (of all companies!) would've driven this golden airplane into the ground, to shatter it into a million pieces the way they did. It's easy to daydream about Lucas ignoring the original Fandom Menacers, and making his vision a reality to share with us.

I REALLY hope that his treatments get released, with all of his concept boards in sequential order as well. Could you imagine that? It'd probably lead to the masses burning down the House of Mouse.



Hell yeah, you got THAT right! It's like we're now the engineer-investigators of the crash site, where the once-golden airplane drove itself at max speed into the ground, and nose first! It's our job to collect all of the micro-bits and put them all back together in a warehouse somewhere. No doubt about it, it was hijacked by a crew of four terrorists!

Kyle, Correct. My belief is that TFM started with the PT. A lot of websites - including this one ridiculed George so much he literally left the internet as a whole. He doesn't have email or any other Social Media contact.

Imagine if no one bashed the Prequels so much and accepted it for being different instead of a rehash of OT? We would have gotten a VERY DIFFERENT version of the Sequel Trilogy - one that we would have gotten sooner like - possibly few years after the release of ROTS instead of a full decade after ROTS. You know why? Because ol' Georgie would have been in a different mood - more happy and willing to support his fandom.

But alas, we got this mess we're in now and I can trace the beginning of TFM directly to this site and several others including theforce.net (When TF.N actually had good guys running it like Chitwood and etc.)

So, you understand why I would blame some of the senior members on here as well other websites.

Yeah and the piece did well for the outlet that reported on it, I was told what the numbers were, but no one else touched it, that was when Paxis was coming out with his stuff (he had JUST appeared with his stuff), so, it kinda got overshadowed. It never went viral. Also I never posted on there or even here how Disney gave JJ complete creative control (yes they in fact did it was a condition of him coming back), he cut the story group out of the process completely (Matt Martin a few weeks ago confirmed he did NOT work on the film) as he didn't want their meddling, and that KK had no say in anything, and if this film was a flop or performs below expectations she's gone.

The stuff about the story group hating George Lucas and the older films being "problematic"? I could see that, like with Pablo going off on Twitter that seemed like shade at Lucas, but, I'm not touching that. I just know there's a schism in the company between people who are old timers under Lucas and new people KK has brought in and it has made things very, very tense.

I know some more but I don't really feel posting specifics, and if some of it is wrong it's about specific people and that's just not my thing. Kiri Hart was fired from the LFL story group, now a producer at Rian Johnson's new production company. Another one left for RJ's company. I think it's safe to say RJ isn't doing SW anymore if he's getting laid off LFL employees, who would produce his SW films most likely, back to Star Wars the people that LFL fired. sorry.

If more dumb drama comes out and it aligns with mine, I'll post what I have. Also I don't know if I posted the above here. I may have posted some of it, but if I didn't, that gives it even more credence. I didn't talk about this anywhere but here, I thought, but if I didn't go this far then yeah I find it unlikely the person is just re-purposing my stuff.

It's funny because that's the origin of it all. I was a gusher so don't blame me! Most of these fools were too young to even comprehend it lmfao. But yeah, the attitude and the beginnings of TFM "movement" is more than just a carryover from prequel-era.

ki, at least you owned it up and acknowledged that you may have been wrong at the time.

About Pablo, it’s funny because he was hired to help work on the prequels starting with Episode I. Pablo then stayed on all through the Disney merger. Then Disney hands him all that power. At that point, he starts changing things around as if he’s trying to dismantle Lucas’ legacy as if he really hated working for George. Don’t you think that’s interesting?


Just in - Iger on damage control:

New stuff from the insider.

Funny part: he's literally saying what I've been saying (minus some bits, and adding other things I simply do not know.) Like, there's some stuff that I never talked about here or with anyone else, even the bit that Disney can't remake the OT or PT because they're contractually obligated to leave his films alone (this is what I was told.)

I did say that Luke would come back in the flesh; was never 100% on that, frikidoctor from the GOT leaks said it might happen ? months ago and that Chewie would die. Well, I think Chewie dying was cut from the film; I do believe in my heart they were going to kill him off. I think they were going to bring back Luke for the final confrontation but this was cut, or at least...it was an idea at some point in production. I got into contact with him and we traded some info, not sure he found my stuff credible but that's the nature of this, sometimes you just don't get it right.

But I still stand by my reports, even though I know there are some things that are wrong, but if you reverse-engineer TROS, keep my spoilers in mind. It's like what I had was the outline for the initial film, and then somewhere in production they did massive reshoots and it either re-purposed certain things, cut them out entirely, or the whole scene or sequence feels choppy because you know they cut something out in xyz place. Like the dagger. So they have to go find one artifact to then find ANOTHER artifact instead of using the Dagger? WTF is that all about? Fucking stupid. The whole first act was completely restructured and changed. They may have completely scrapped what they originally had filmed.

They were also editing on-set and had less time than last. I personally think the first act and the last act are near unrecognizable in their current forms. Just my speculation honestly but you can tell if you've ever edited a film, or even if you just know the process, it's all over the place. ouch.





This whole thing is just so fucking weird. I'm serious unless this person is looking inside my head somehow I do not know how they could post things I NEVER EVEN POSTED PUBLICLY and is now spouting it all out. I usually would be skeptical, that's always my mindset, but with this...I'm going to try to reach out to this person because this is too much to be a coincidence. and I know they are holding back. at least when I leak I have a lot of stuff I don't mention because either I don't believe it or because I'm just not sure.

the funny thing is I also used spoilers in my report from a source now I know is bad and BS'd me on the han audio diary and some stuff like that. rey's real name. that stuff was BS. some little things. so I know to never use again, and that was someone I was hesitant on anyway, whatever. most of it I still feel is legit.

This person isn't using any of this etc., and it would be so easy to pull that out and use it in their report. If they did and then say "yeah they cut this and made Rey's parentage this during reshoots" I'd be like yeah, no, I call BS. It would be obvious they were just taking my shit too.

I'm going to go back over what I have, look at our finished film, and give a breakdown of what I believe happened. Also, I've done writing in a professional setting before. This person doesn't match or come off as anyone I've talked to, and, no, it's not me lol. The language and writing voice simply don't match anyone I've interacted with. This shit is getting so weird. I don't even fucking know.

Hey Kyle, I know why I haven't been sourced. Because I actually have interacted privately with some very influential, and probably among those the most influential (I'm not naming names) privately. I don't think they like me very much since I called them out at one point on numerous things, and while there are some awesome TFM'ers who I really like. Like Steve Walton, that guy doing the book. Stephen is a great guy. And btw these YouTubers don't have sources. Doomcock just copypasta'd a lot of other people's stuff then says he has a "source." lmao no.

But also my leaks wouldn't have made them as much money. Whatever, it doesn't matter, don't give most of these people any attention. They're a joke. I don't want to keep on about TFM though; I actually came back to posting here because I wanted to get away from that shit and I had info I wasn't going to get out there via TFM, even though yeah I know a good amount of people in there.

Also, Paxis says he doesn't think the Matt Smith/Mortis stuff was ever a thing:



Considering Paxis was getting his info during post production and even knew what they were doing edit-wise, he wouldn't know any of this. My information comes from a much different phase of production than his. literally polar opposites. I just wish my source would have sent me some of the artwork I know they're going to cut out of "The Art of The Rise of Skywalker." ugh.

Perhaps the Matt Smith/Mortis stuff had to do with another future project we know nothing about yet.

I would be up for a new trilogy starting a living Luke Skywalker. Too bad about the Mortis stuff. Why were we led to believe that about that kind of stuff? I don’t get it.
But in any case, I think it’s safe to say that Disney has botched TROS and ST as a whole, don’t you agree Ki Adi?

The power some fans give Pablo Hidalgo is hilarious. He writes visual dictionaries really well and is a fan. How he became the fourth member of the sinister corporate cabal hellbent on reviving and ruining Star Wars is insane. There are probably 30 people more important than he is who are actually making decisions.

They've completely butchered it. I'll be honest, it's going to take a lot of time from a perception-standpoint for Star Wars FILMS to bounce back, if ever. That's how much of a disaster this was.

They should have had JJ as the "showrunner" for the entire trilogy. That's the only way this works. I noticed with The Rise of Skywalker, rumors aside...early on things happen so fast you'll miss what happened and not even realize it makes no sense whatsoever. I noticed this several times. It's like they had multiple cuts of the film and tried to force them together and the result we got was a hot mess.

I mean, I can even tell John Williams' score was edited/placed in the movie very poorly.
And what about containing nearly every theme from the Saga? lol no.

Thanks Disney! With JJ as "showrunner", at least you could have a coherent story across all three films. What I find funny about TROS is that you can just skip TLJ and you won't miss anything substantial. Which is simply hilarious.

Whether this person is legit or not, it's really weird they're saying everything I've been saying publicly since last June-ish. Either someone has literally read everything I've said across multiple platforms (not likely, pretty much impossible), or, it's someone who knows me personally. I really doubt it's the latter.

Also note: I never said the other force ghosts were going to "bring Luke back to life", though that's a rumor from a long time ago. I was just told he'd have a fight with a lightsaber in the flesh. Which matches a cut concept from ROTJ with Obi-Wan helping Luke against Vader and the Emperor. So really I have no idea. Part of me wants to think this is just a LARP. The way the person is literally hitting all the stuff I've been saying is suspect, but I'm not sure about anything anymore.

Fuck it. Regardless, we got what we got. The same people who drove George Lucas from Star Wars are the same people screaming now that he would be its savior and Star Wars isn't Star Wars without GL. Even though they shit all over the prequels all those years ago. They can't make a fucking decision.

People like Jeremy Griggs from G+G. Though he goes on all the time that he really liked the prequels, but what's funny is right after TLJ came out he said he liked it and then backtracked after he realized he could make money from that good ole YouTube algorithm! Such a fraud.

But yeah Freezus I think that Disney fucked up majorly and that the way of the future for SW is in streaming, like The Mandalorian and soon-to-be Kenobi series. If TROS doesn't at least beat TLJ's box office (not sure if it's tracking to or not) numbers, Disney is going to be furious. I mean usually in Trilogies, the BO numbers to decline from movie to movie, but, TLJ was even a disappointment numbers-wise for Disney.

I don't expect any new SW films in the near future, but Disney has to generate SW revenue somehow...lol.

ki, I’ve been literally saying this that the original TFM from the prequel era is what ruined Star Wars.
And with GL gone, there may be no way to fix this.

The only way to fix this is if Lucas decided to file a legal suit against Disney more specifically Bob Iger because after witnessing this shitstorm upfront with JJ Abrams, he can say Disney breached the contract with political motivations in mind. 2020 is going to be an interesting year because Disney will have a lot of shit to deal with and a big backlash from the SW community both outside and LFL and in the Lucas Camp.

Disney is fucked here. All we can do is prepare for the inevitable Lucas-Disney war.
And boy, it’s going to be UGLY.

Like I said, I’m going to hug my blu-ray box set of I-VI really tight because that’s the real saga and it ended with ROTJ.

As much as I like reading the many wishes for a Disney film series focused on Luke, there'd be no point in it. All it'll do is serve to scratch open the 6" thick scab from the Last Jedi and its impact on Rise of Skywalker, and there's no way that Disney would be that dumb to do that. Bringing Luke back to the screen can ONLY rip open that wound, no matter how great the films may be.

There's one beyond-belief-hardcore fix to all of this: issue a huge apology, decanonize anything dealing with the Disney Trilogy, and start allover again. Leia would never make an appearance, and Han would return provided that the paycheck was fat enough to allow Harrison to roll some major blunts. Disney, in all of its drunk-on-itself arrogance, would never do this. Because: pathological narcissism. Oh, and the political ramifications would be enormous. Need I say whom would have the biggest issue with this? The caterwauling would be endless, and that too would play a crushing role in preventing this from happening.

The far more likely route would be a Disney+ series. There's something about a show being on a *TV* that makes it feel very differently from being on a large theater screen, and it would act as a buffer from throwing aspersions and drumming up hatred of the Disney Trilogy allover again. If they went the TV route, the scripting and pacing would have to be FLAWLESS (too many people have a profound love for Luke, so mistakes would not be tolerated due to how they severely warped and twisted Luke in the films). Doing this with love and reverence for Luke's true legacy would also GUARANTEE huge subscription increases for Disney+. In terms of pure greed, they'd be idiots NOT to pursue this.

I don't see this series happening, at all, with Kathleen Kennedy or Pablo Hidalgo being onboard (it's safe to say that Abrams/Johnson would have ZERO input on this matter). They HATE Luke as a character and everything that he stands for, and the proof is abundant in the films. Some say that Kennedy is now just a paid front of a figurehead, that her powers have been largely stripped away, and that the reason that they can't rightfully fire her are entirely political. Openly firing her, as she did to half of her directors over the years, is UNTHINKABLE. Because... Well, you figure it out. The irony is rich, and I llllllllooooooove it!

I forget why specifically, but back in the day I used to find Pablo Hidalgo insufferable. I probably haven't thought about him since the prequels. How he has so much influence is beyond me.

I think JJ is a no-talent hack (has he ever actually made a good film??) but the idea of a "showrunner" is a no-brainer. I can't believe Disney went into this without a coherent plan. It's truly embarrassing.

Even if, hypothetically, you liked each film individually (I find them all entertaining at least) - do you like the trilogy? It's a disjointed mess with endless number of plot holes, and wildly inconsistent themes and characterization.

Kennedy, Abrams, Johnson, everyone involved with creating these three films just performed a Master Class in how not to make a trilogy.

Ya'll realize that the OT also wasn't planned out ahead of time, right? I thought ROTJ was disjointed and felt like 2 or 3 movies in one when I saw it for the first time.

Then I got over it.

This new trilogy is certainly no OT. But then again there is no way in hell it could have been. It could have been the long lost missing scenes from The Magnificent Ambersons, and we'd still pick it apart and scrutinize how it all came together, or came apart.

Bander,

I’d like to contest your claim by posting the following...



As you can see that Lucas did plan out the entire saga. The saga was always planned to revolve around Annikin Starkiller or you know him as Anakin/Luke Skywalker.

Unlike Disney, Lucas actually outlined the entire saga in advance. His ideas evolved as time went on but he always planned to make a bunch of trilogies.

I can't think of how they could have done a worse job if they had tried:

-Hyperspace ram and the fleet "chase"
-Force teleporting
-Force ghosts being able to hold things, throw lightning, lift objects
-Force Skype and overdosing
-Force rezzing
-Palpatine not being a cloud of vaguely evil vapor

All of those things happened under their watch. Talk about easiest paycheck in the world, holy shit.

Yea, with force ghosts the only exception I could come up with is maybe the planet is special - first Jedi temple - and serves as an enhanced version of dagobah or something. I forget how it all works, but I agree it's nuts.

Force teleporting is too much with the Vader helmet. Grabbing items and stuff because of the dayad... fine, like I'll accept that as it's such a rare connection, but I don't want to see it in any other media ever except for maybe something detailing the first dayad.

The rezzing, Palps and fleet chase I agree 100% with you.

Oh yeah, those blank pages sure do say a lot...

Guess you can’t read what Lucas scribbled about Darth Vader on the bottom of the first page. That’s okay - a lot of people these days can’t read for shit and to think we Americans wasted billions of dollars showing people how to read in 1st grade yet we find out that most Americans as adults can’t read and we end up with Trump because of that.

Good to know you can’t read Lucas’ handwriting. You must be real proud of being illiterate.

Of course I can read the scribble about Luke, Solo, Leia, Vader. I've seen that several times. But it tells us nothing about the entire saga being planned out ahead of time. In fact Lucas himself has said before that he did NOT have it all planned out. He only had a very general idea about an outline. The blank parts on those pages mean nothing other than he didn't have it all etched in stone.

I've been following this shit since I was 12 in 1977.
What you should read, if you haven't yet, is this:



Star_Wars:_The_Annotated_Screenplays

It's fascinating to read how much stuff was thought up on the spot, and even re-written in post.
This is not an unusual practice.
It wasn't unusual in the late 70's and early 80's, and it isn't unusual now.

Bander, I actually have that book. It’s been in my possession since 1997.

You say Lucas never planned shit out, but if you read the early stuff from the 70s and early 80s read all the interviews from 77 to 83, what he said then is very different from what he claims now.

You’d be surprised how much people tried to get him to change the directions of his films. I mean, even Gary Kurtz wanted several Death Stars in ROTJ and Luke as a lone “gunslinger.”

The old man has been known to change his stories several times. You want the truth? Go read his early stuff.

Comparing the OT to the ST is apples and oranges. There was no way for George to have known at the time whether he'd even be successful enough to make a sequel, let alone a trilogy. With the ST, a trilogy+ was one of the first things Disney announced. That the OT was still able to tell such a coherent story on the fly is a testament to all involved, but if you're implying that the ST somehow benefited from trying to replicate the "by the seat of your pants" plotting of the OT, then I strongly disagree.


Also, regarding your second point, I don't think you give the fandom enough credit tbh. Look at the Mandalorian - the last episode had a whole host of plot problems and unrealistic character behaviour, but it was still well received and fans are nowhere near as critical of it as the ST because it managed to build up a lot of goodwill with its first seven episodes. If anything, it shows how quickly fans will turn the other cheek when they're actually given quality content.

Monari, not only that.. If you remember the early drafts of ANH script, It was originally going to be titled "Episode I - Adventures of Starkiller." But then Lucas realized that filming a movie with a lot of special effects wasn't feasible with 70's technology so the movie became Episode IV - A New Hope but it didn't get an official Episode numbering until after Empire was released. I mean, the early ESB drafts came with the title of "Episode II - THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK." Everyone just called ROTJ "Episode III" or "Star Wars 3/III" until 1981 when the official numbering was announced.

Here's what the ESB Crawl would have looked like if they went with the early drafts:



And I agree with you that the ST didn't benefit from the "the seat of your pants" filmmaking simply because it had a lot of expectations behind it and even Lucas tried to build TFA up to be something special until Disney took over and ruined everything. We the fans expected the ST to be different.. more like a blend of the OT and Prequels. We didn't get that. We got basically, another OT.

Just watched TFA with my 9yr old boy last night. He loves it. It was building something. The redo of 4 was forgiven due to the introduction of a few more things... then something went wrong.

I not implying that, I'm just pointing that out about the OT, whether it was for better or worse in any of the trilogies.



That's exactly what I got out of it, so I just don't get what the problem is.

This whole JJ/Lucas cut is nonsense. That's all I'm going to say. Anyone reporting that Matt Smith was cast in Rise of Skywalker at any point and/or filmed scenes for this movie is feeding you a bunch of bullshit.

Matt Smith was officially announced as a part of the cast then Smith stated that he was not in the film and later his name was removed from the official cast list. I've not read anything about him shooting scenes.

Welp. The JJ Cut



Combine that with a piece from this interview and it kind of lines up.

Chris Terrio on Palpatine (IGN Interview)



This is worded very carefully.

You've made our point. That's way more than Abrams, Kennedy, Johnson or whoever involved in this trainwreck had.

I've also read the annotated screenplay, though a long time ago. No one is suggesting Lucas had the specific plot points from each film mapped out, but he clearly had been kicking the story around in his head for a long time. It had some cohesion and overarching themes - and he had worked on the back stories of all major characters. He at least knew who Luke, Leia & Vader were.

No one bothered to map out Rey's backstory, and as a result, each of the three films has a completely different take on it. JJ was taking it one way, Johnson took it in completely the opposite direction, and then JJ reversed course but probably not to his original plan, and instead had to pull in some zombie Palpatine shit out of left field. It's embarrassing how much they butchered that.