My best friend + are having a(nother) raging saberfight over the Dagobah Cave scene in Empire Strikes Back.

My buddy says he can't see how/why Luke failed this test. I explained my view - that taking his weapons in was a sign of Fear (--->leads to etc), + that when confronted with himself, he struck out decapattack style rather than open himself to the 'Truth' presented by the Cave.

My friend says, "He was just thinking, better safe than sorry." + proceeded to swear a bit at me. @_@

This thread started by Plato has some good ideas about what happened in there, but I'd like to have a bit of specific discussion + perhaps expound on what transpired in the Dagobah Cave, so I can come back twice as strong with many words + disarm my pal's brain + feed it to the wind.

Luke Failed!

Yes, he did fail. By not paying attention to Yoda´s warning ("Only what you take with you"), he didn´t use his head and dived right into a battle which only showed him fighting himself.

Out of fear, he brought his weapons along and failed the test.

Hmm. I think he failed by being lured to Cloud City, but I definately think he did the 'Light' thing once he faced Vader.

Very true, + a good point to base my attack from I am curious if there could have been some other kind of outcome here, once Luke had stepped inside with that predisposition to encounter something bad. Weird that he outright attacks Vader. . . I really need to watch this s'more to cement what exactly happens.

It must be the will of the Force - Empire:SE is playing on tele in a half hour ! *wanders off to scrutinize Cave sequence*

I always notice that as well. There are a couple of places in these movies where the Jedi ignite first, + it always raises my eyebrow.

Luke fails because he brings his fear along with him when he enters the cave. As the dialogue goes:

Luke: What's in there?

Yoda: Only what you take with you.

Everything Luke confronts in there is a reflection of himself: fear, hatred, aggression... all the things personified as Vader... and that is why he failed.

The whole test was over fear. Since he feared a confrontation with Vader that is what manifested. It could also be forshadowing. If Luke continued down the path of fear he himself would turn into Vader.

*Hutt Laugh* Cool, idiocy-derail on my first thread. . .now my postcount can go back to 1 when this thread is locked + disintigrated! @_@

How can you say R2 has no feelings? *inserts multi-paragraph essay on how the 2 droids are Lucas' ironic commentary on the inhuman behavior of the Empire* That astromech is a person, + his name is Artoo!

Now 'scuse me while I kiss this guy. [/purple haze]

The droids are a treatise on gay rights. R2 is the butch and 3PO is the bitch.

Luke most important battle would be against himself.

Actually, Bathas has this one. In the end, his battle was to emasculate Vader by clipping his right hand (can't hold your belt and glower if you're now a lefty by default ) so then only the Emperor posed a threat to him. Once Luke tossed his lightsaber, Vader owed him his life.

Of course, it's possible that Luke didn't quite have a plan to deal with the Emperor (maybe he thought that 'ol Palp's head would explode when he said "fuck, no"), but fortunately the Emperor's method of killing was inefficient enough so that Vader would have had time to hear all of that "Father, please!" stuff.

Yoda tells Luke he must "unlearn what he has learned," meaning he must look at things with a new perspective, but he doesn't. He still faces an enemy or a challenge with guns--or saber--blazing, with the attitude that the best defense is a good offense. He just doesn't believe enough in The Force and isn't patient enough to take his time to learn its ways. He wants to be a Jedi and wants it now, not necessarily so he can do good, etc., but so he can avenge his father and kill Vader. He's just not ready, he has skills but can't control them or his emotions, fears.

The symbolic meaning of Luke's face inside the helmet is a warning that if he goes off on a half-cocked mission of revenge he'll end up being the thing he hates most.

Although in Luke's defense, he did not grow up in the time of the Jedi and he's had only a crash course in training, not years of study and field practice with a Master, but still ends up doing okay. He's pretty hot under the collar when first facing Vader, but ultimately doesn't give in to hate.

Damn straight.

remember, yoda told him he wouldn't need his weapons. and luke gave him the "are you fucking serious little green man?" look.

Beat me to the punch.

"Your weapons, need them you will not"

Or something like that. And Luke was pretty much like, "Ok, sure, now where'd I set my blaster?"

Plus, if cutting off your own head isn't a sign of failure, I don't know what is.

"YOUR WEAPONS, NEED THEM YOU WILL A LOT"

fucking retarts

Is a retart like a pre-ingested Pop-Tart just being served again? Cause if so, that is a hefty insult indeed.

Heh....yeah. If he didn't take his weapons into that cave, he'd have been cut down by Vader.....or...umm....his loyal decoy! Yeah, that's it. Who just happened to be Luke's other twin......

I guess the sheep subculture can't distinguish between an aparition and a real person unless it's got a big blue haze.