sound mix, music tracking and editing, a few cut lines and the Qui-Gon scene should be put back in.

haha that made me bust out laughing. The more i look at that scene...the more i wonder about it.




thanks that been covered already




I agree. Some things should have been cutted out and others that were cutted out should have been put in. Someone said if we could only hear the thoughts anakin was thinking when he was being operated would have been awesome if that was in there too.

That is about the same feeling I have about the movie. I can live with most of the cuts that were made, but that Qui-Gon scene is one I wish was still in there.

My opinion of the movie was pretty positive after I saw it the first time. It was raised even more the second time I it, mainly because I knew what to expect, and because the theater fixed the sound problem.

it doesn't matter he was full of shit, he never intended on helping Anakin to save Padme, her death only helped fuel his transistion to the dark side.

no i dont think he was full of shit because he knew that anakin could do it and he knew how powerfull he could be. He was just selfish and decieving about it. He was just using anakin to help himself but made it seem he wanted to help anakin. I wonder if he knew padme was going to die all along or knew that anakin was the one who would kill padme.

It was also a metaphor - Kind of Obi Wan stating that he has the moral high ground as well.

Anakin could have just floated off into the sunset...

I have a theory on Anakin's birth I want to toss out there:

Anakin was created by Darth Plageius to be the eventual perfect Sith successor, while Palpatine was his apprentice. Since Plagieus knew the secret to living forever, he wanted an apprentice who would never consider overthrowing him, hence Anakin being born into slavery. That way, he has a slave mentality his whole life, and it becomes something that always affects him (don't hurt your master).

Palpatine, who learns everything from Plageius, but cannot reproduce the experiment to create life, sees Anakin as his eventual replacement, and rather than wait around to be replaced, kills Plageius in his sleep, and assumes the role of Sith Master, and looks to get his own short term apprentices, starting with Darth Maul. Also, the fact that Palpatine cannot reproduce the experiment that created Anakin lends credance that the Force also willed Anakin into existance, hence why Mace and Yoda speculated that the Prophecy could have been misread.

Palpatine takes over Plageius's spot in the plan, and you know the rest from there.

My take on the Sith lightning, is that while Palpatine is not as old as Yoda, the Sith lightning reflected back interfered with the Sith power that Plageius knew, which I think was to preserve life - i.e. a dark side fountain of youth, where you don't age. Hence the whole "The darkside is a pathway to what some would consider 'unnatural'." line.

So the transformation scene is another clue that Sideous was indeed Plageius's apprentice.


Now, I know some people will argue with me on these, most of them because they have their own version in their head of how they want the scenes to play out and what they mean, but I am just taking the visual clues and fitting them to the story, rather than fitting the story to my own preconceived notions, as I had none prior to Sith.

Anyway, part of the Star Wars fun is that Lucas intentionally leaves a lot of things ambiguous, that way people can come to conclusions other than the one he was intending - he seems to love it, and it is a Star Wars trademark through all 6 films.

Star Wars discussion is kinda like sports discussion: even the biggest brain-dead idiot can eventually be right about something. So if you disagree with my synopsis, fine - that's part of the fun. Just take what I have put out there as food for thought.

I don't think that's part of the fun at all. Lucas just throws in a lot of shit that doesn't make a lot of sense, stuff that just leaves you guessing. I expected a bit more from the prequels.

I can dig the 'virgin birth' to some degree but it remains a complete mystery. Then in episode 3 there's suddenly the possibility that it wasn't a virgin birth at all but rather some kind of Sith experiment but that's basically just a wild guess. I think the whole 'virgin birth', 'prophecy' and 'chosen one' bullshit could have been left out and it would not have made any difference. We never hear anything about what the prophecy is about, just that someone will bring balance to the Force. It's like a riddle but nobody ever tries to solve it. It is constantly referred to, usually in one or two lines, but it's never fleshed out. Anakin's redemption in ROTJ does not hinge on any of these things. Anakin could have simply wanted more out of the Force than the Jedi had to offer him, he could have been fed up with the Jedi because they're ineffective.

His turn doesn't work at all. We all wanted to see the prequels because of Anakin turning into Darth Vader and because of the Clone Wars. We get short-changed on both. The Clone Wars are explored in a bloody cartoon. I think Lucas also dropped the ball on Palpatine. Great character but no background. Revenge of the Sith for what? All we needed to see was a Palpatine that was once a Jedi but because he was so hungry for power he became a politician and slowly worked his way up to Supreme Chancellor. And now he wants to get rid of the Jedi altogether and cement his control over the Senate. You don't need to show his rise to Supreme Chancellor. This is stuff you can be told through dialogue between characters, Palpatine explaining to Anakin that the Jedi are not what they should be and that there is more to the Force than what the Jedi have to offer. The audience can be left in the dark till Episode 3 about Palpatine being a fullblown Sith. Because, you know, he sounds bloody reasonable. He's such a likeable guy. After all, the Jedi are ineffective. Especially those stick-in-the-muds Yoda and Mace. And Obi-Wan. Sure, they're good guys but why can't they fight wars? Why do they stick to the rulebook? They practically force Palpatine to call for the creation of a clone army. By the end the audience should feel cheated by Palpatine. Just like everyone else. We needed to see the rebellion take shape with Padmé and Obi-Wan scheming against Palpatine, causing a major rift between them and Anakin. And even then we need to be on the fence, because you know, Palpatine means well. Anakin sees it, why can't they? Till finally, in the end we understand. But then it's too late. And then we desperately want that rebellion to kick Palpatine's ass and kick Vader's ass too.

So much potential. It's like Lucas made a beautiful chessboard with gorgeous pieces but imho he put the pieces in all the wrong places. Lazy storytelling. If you don't like to write, let someone else write it for you. If you don't like to direct these movies, let someone else direct them for you.

Lucas could have nailed the whole case shut, but he blew it. I can enjoy the prequels on some level and ROTS is without a doubt the best of the prequels. TPM has its moments and AOTC has its moments. But overall it just doesn't add up. Everytime I put in one of the prequel DVD's I fastforward to the 'cool' bits. The story leaves me cold.

There was a little of this to a certain degree in the book. More of Obi Wan and Padme realizing though that Palpatine had consolidated too much power, and might possibly be evil or under the influence of the Sith. They argued with Anakin on why he couldn't see this and also they both wanted him to watch the Chancellor or talk to him about their (Padme and Obi Wans's) problems with his ruling style/accumulation of power.

Interesting post though, lots to think about there.

Interesting post, Gunsblazing.

I was wondering the other day just how much better the PT may have been if the Separatist crisis and Clone Wars had of started in TPM with the leaving of Count Dooku, and the Invasion of Naboo occured during the Wars in AotC in which Anakin saved Amidala's planet only to fall in love with her at the same time...

couldn't agree with you more. I feel the same way about the matrix. But in that circumstances they just got lazy and wanted to make money. I think Lucas was just stubborn and was to proud to ask for help.

I think the OT works as a whole story, though. The PT is a bumpy ride which needs more explanation because of the bad structure.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this or not. I've been gone a few days, so if you have, just proceed to give me the "STFU nub" salute. Thanks.

Anyway, when Anakin gets "Vader-ized," I found the whole scene to be somewhat disjointed. I mean, they roll him in, he's all crispy and writhing in agony. Then they slap some limbs, clothes, a cape and some other shit on him, pop on the patented two-piece helmet and the guy jumps up like he just got a pedicure.

I understand he was probably immersed in bacta or something while in the medical capsule, but come on. This doesn't jive too well.

The book was better in framing the Jedi than the movie ever did. At the end of the book, everyone and anyone who didn't support the Emperor was in danger of their lives; Senators and Jedi alike.

I agree that we needed to see Anakin start from a young age - but I wouldn't have had him stuck on Tatooine. I would have had him on a totally different planet. Tatooine was boring, it was suppose to be boring. Why did we need to see it so much in the PT? Argh!

That way Luke could be from a boring planet in the OT.

Obi-Wan would have taken him to some grandios location instead of Tatooine if Luke's step-uncle wasn't living there.

im just wondering why anakin and obi wans relationship is so diffrent in clones and sith, and why the huge change in anakins personality in such a short time, how\why did this happen. also why lucas had anakin complain about the pace of his training in clones and have nothing about it in sith.


i realize he joins the dark side for more power, but anakin complains about obi wan and his trianing before his mother dies in clones.

He isnt complaining about the pace of his training, because he is no longer in training, he is a jedi knight, not a padawan. Hence no reason to complain.

I wish we got to see more of the Jedi Temple being raided and more action in the security hologram. That didn't even make my dick hard. We've all been waiting for years to see how the Jedi get slaughtered, and we only see a couple minutes of it all together with Order 66. Don't get me wrong, Order 66 was beautiful. Lucas just could've elaborated more around these scenes.

Just like the book, I wish Yoda would've spoken about Cin Drallig not abondoning the younglings in the holo security recordings. How powerful would that have been seeing Cin Drallig try to protect the younglings? It would've added a lot more heart to the movie.

I agree there were alot of things i wish would have been there

Things they shouldn't have cut...

1. The dooku fight(Just too short)
2. The scene were Anakin fliped when he wasn't ranked master
3. The palpatine and mace fight(i thought there was more said and it seemed short)
4. The hologram and jedi slaughter(or at least showed more)
5. The final duel cut( I know the fight was longer than that)
6. The qui gon jin scene(Im sorry that would have been good to see)
7. The dagobah scene(the should have tied that end with the sunset scene at the end)

Things the should have cut...

1. The space battle (i know some parts were cool but it seemed to drag on to me)
2. The combing hair scene(We didn't need to see that)
3. When Palpatine was talking to anakin with that weird voice before he become vader (they could have shorten that)
4. Some of R2-D2 scene(I know he was funny in some parts but It made it seem liked the film was bi polar..I just wanted it to be dark)
5. Some of Grevious scene (I would have liked if he didn't talk much or have much of a big role i kinda saw him more like Darth Maul)
6. The "NOOOOO" scene(That was just weird i can go with the stumbling Vader but I would just have liked if he just asked what happen to to Padme, Sidious tells him, and he just screams like what we heard in the OT and show more CGI of him crushing the things around him)

Also at the end instead of trying something new with the "dream " thing i would have like for a way for lucas to have us hear what Anakin was thinking when he was being operated on. Reading the novel just made that scene powerful. If they did all that the movie would have been almost perfect.

1. I liked it. It was very CG'd watching Dooku kick Anakin and throwing Obi-Wan. Other than that, I loved it.
2. Agreed.
3. I liked it. The book did describe the furious speed of the Sith Lord and how Mace was snapping into Vaapad. To my knowledge, I don't think Vaapad had to do with speed as it had to do with the flow of both light and dark energy channel through you. It's kind of like a introspective state of swordplay. I did like the cinematography in that scene too.
4. Agreed. Definitely.
5. I could care less. But, okay.
6. Oh yeah, definitely. This is the scene that has to deal with the transcendance of the force. And the last part of the dialogue for Qui-Gon shows hope for the light side of the force: "The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed."
7. Yup. This too.

Things the should have cut...



1. I thought he already cut enough. It was fine for me.
2. I understand the point of it; to add resonance to the upcoming dream scene. Different lines could've been delivered.
3. Oh hell no. I loved it.
4. I thought this scene was fine as it was.
5. Same as #4. I love his character.
6. Yeah. The "No!" scene could've been emphasized better. And I did love how he was stumbling with his new legs. That was sad.

Quoted to show Jedi Strider's brilliance. Couldn't agree more. Lucas has always been fantastic at character arcs and moving the story along. His dialogue may be bashed, but it's interesting how underneath the dialogue there is actually this fantastically crafted story.

I've never been able to see E1 and E2 Anakin as the same person. The gap in time and character is just too great. Maybe if GL had left in the scene where Anakin beats the snot out of Greedo, we would have some inkling of the short-tempered adult he becomes. Of maybe if Jake Lloyd could act. There's also virtually no trace of this "pure, very kind soul" in E2/3 Anakin. I understand that GL was going for whiny, petulant teen, in E2 but I don't think that was the right choice for the character. Thankfully, most of that was dropped in E3, and he almost became likeable again before turning - which is exactly the right dynamic.

I agree with you Fixer. Yes, I see the innocence of Ep1 Anakin. But there is little to connect him to Ep2 Anakin past the name. Ep2 Anakin is so different, much more than simply being a different actor, he could easily be a whole other character. The arrogant, miserable Ep2 Anakin almost seems to have made most of the journey towards Vader off-screen so we never really see how that Ep1 innocent child Anakin becomes Vader - rendering him pretty pointless.

And yet, in Ep3 we are introduced to an Anakin with a sense of adventure, a sense of fun that Ep2 Anakin didn't have. As I had said in one of my first posts in this thread, this was the first time I saw a likeable side to Anakin. I couldn't help thinking - this is the Anakin they should have started the prequels with.

Yeah, so we get that Anakin was innocent as a child in Ep1. We could have established that in one line. Hell, we could have had it in an opening crawl. To me, having Anakin that young was pretty much a waste of a movie.

The one thing I keep coming back to is…

I just had surgery on my foot, it was only 25 minutes, and they knocked me out. Makes sense, right? Here Anakin is burnt to a crisp, requiring cybernetic legs and arms (did they actually use his old right arm? That thing was pretty well done too.), who knows what for the whole breathing apparatus, and these droids never think to put him under? At least so he’ll stop hitting them with that one halfway good arm?

Don’t get me wrongo. It still took my breath away. I don’t think I breathed until he did. I’m jus’ sayin’…

Well the OT was hardly brimming with backstory either. In fact I think we got a lot more this time around about the workings of things. If you want more backstory I can't help thinking bringing up the OT is shooting yourself in the foot.

Yeah the revenge thing is pretty vague - it seems clear that the Jedi beat the Sith at one point though and I don't know if it needs to go any deeper than that. Again, the Plagueis thing was clear enough for me. The implication was that Palpatine killed him. I didn't need more exposition for that. In fact that's a criticism I'd level at the previous two films that RotS handled much better - the old filmmaker adage of 'show, don't tell'. McDiarmid's expression said it all in that scene. There was no need for any more exposition.

Howver, I can't help agreeing on the prophesy. Not that I think it needed more explanation. Quite the opposite, I don't see what purpose it played in the story. I was expecting that to build or be revealed but, no, it served no purpose in my opinion. The prophesy could have been dumped without any effect on the story.

At this point we have no prior knowledge on who does or doesn't get accepted by the Jedi except for Luke who was maybe 20 or close to it. I do see your point about it being a nice piece of mythology and it does tie in with the end of RotJ I suppose but I personally think it's no more useful as a plot device than simply having Anakin demonstrate his abilities. The podrace sequence does this - he is the only human that can do it according to the story. I think ways like that serve as better plot devices to have Anakin accepted than a random prophesy or midichlorian count. Once again (yep, repetitive I know) it's 'show, don't tell'.

But I suppose for the EU people, it does open the doors for some interesting history and side stories I would imagine.

The overall function of the prophecy is quite clear and simple. It just meant Anakin was someone special, that was supossed, was powerful enough to do something really important, but it seemed in ROTS he fucked up. Ultimately this makes his final choice in ROTJ even more powerful and meaningful, suggesting that the whole Anakin's story including his fall is about the neccesery path to achieve some kind of balance, natural order and his redemption wasn't just a personal thing, but reflects some larger, more abstract issue.

OK, just standard myth and Greek tragedy stuff.

I think with the PT done, a lot of frustration rises because people know that it couldve been so much more...



Those are my thoughts as well.

I understand that Lucas likes the control but since he hates writing so much why not write a general outline and let someone else dig out the deep stuff?

Personally i wouldve loved if Spielberg wouldve directed the first one. Hes just a great director when it comes to kids.

I really wished Irvin K. wouldve directed ROTS. Listiing to his ESB commentary, the guy just GETs it. He knows that its all about emotions, characters and story. Thats not to say that ROST is bad but its not great either....

So could have OT, especially ROTJ. I actually feel more cheated with ROTJ than the prequels. I view PT as bonus chapters: it's nice to have them but it's not vital to the story of OT. It's easier to ignore any or all of the PT movies than this not very epric and not very satisfying conclusuib to the greatest saga in the movie history.

We know a lot of material especially Padme's whole substory was cut from the final film, but how much was filmed?

Was the whole Padme meeting with the senators and then with Palpatine filmed at all or cut by the time of filming?

Any other things in the book, but just never even filmed?

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't talking about the events that happened there - just the location. I would have preferred for Anakin's podracing and everything else to happen and some other planet.



The OT didn't really need to have backstory, it's the last part of the story, so it is all about resolve.

Well, I've seen it four times now. I thought it was really really awesome, although it get extremely slow after that first 30 minutes.

One thing I'm wondering about though...a lot of people said Ian McDiarmid had some really great acting...what movie were they watching? I thought his "NO NO NO" thing against Mace was god awful. My entire theatre laughed at it all four times. The faces he made while dueling were also pretty ridiculous. So, is it just me, or did he really over act for the most part?

I'm reminded of a question once asked though, "Does anyone ever pay for under the top?".

I thought his acting was superb. The "no no no" think fits, as well as the fact that he's an old man fighting with all his power thus the faces. But if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you.

its just you

lol I figured as much. Not that I thought he did bad or anything, in fact I thought he was awesome for the most part. There were just a couple parts where I thought he was a bit much.

It's still an awesome movie!

i beg your pardon?

mechanical Vader is a wuss/crippled old man in an iron lung...a pale shadow of what he could have been...and this is from Lucas' own mouth....


he calls him: ' a tragic, pathetic character'...says so right there in the 'making of' book...

what Sidious tells Yoda is: ' [flesh and blood] Vader will become more powerful than either of us...' not the mechanical version of the Sith Lord....

i mean, there has to be a reason why Vader's such a Palpatine bitch in the OT....

Boy, two of the best posts of ever read on this board. Feels like you guys were reading my mind. Perhaps, I am one of the 'weak minded?'

Absolutely. I got into a little discussion/argument with a friend after seeing ROTS, and he's like a lot of fans that wanted to see a young, innocent Anakin. My argument was like yours: Anakin needed to be likeable and yet troubled from the getgo. Having Episode I start with a young, free spirited Anakin was a bad move by Lucas to kick start Anakin's decline into the dark side. If anything, Episode I can serve, at best, as a prologue to Episodes II and III. There was no need to start Anakin's journey so early in the timeline, especially if the seeds of his fall aren't going to be really introduced until episode II.

Episode I should have been the beginning of the clone wars. Episode II then could have spent much more time invested in Anakin's turn while the clone wars were going full steam. End episode II with a kick ass cliffhanger (no cheapy wedding scene) and then blast off downhill in episode III for a tourdeforce slide to the dark side. That's how I think the prequels should have gone, narrative wise. I know Lucas wanted to spend a lot of time introducing us to the starwars prequel world, but by doing so and spending so much time on useless characters and subplots (JarJar, trade federation, midichlorians), he cut away a good chunk of movie time that could have been spent productively on the meat of the story.

And that long ass winded post can be summed up by -- that's why episode III seems to be a bit rushed story-wise.

I would have to agree there. GL handled that subtly, beautifully, and I know a couple of casual fans that were shocked to find out Palpatine was Darth Sidious (that guy in the hood on the hologram is the same as the old fucker?? dude!) and that he was playing both sides against each other the whole time to gain total power from the rubble.

Anakin is something that could have been handled better and also, as some of you have been stating, been older when we first met him.

The Sith as we see them in the movies aren't the "true" Sith. The real Sith were another species that over time mixed with the fallen Jedi who were cast away from the Order.

There were several times before the present Star Wars timeline (the movies) where the Jedi were beaten to a bloody pulp and only a handfull remained. It was VERY similar to how Vader did it as well, there was always an uber-Jedi who the Council knew was good but still decided to shit on him despite his badassness. The Jedi would go off and find some darkside power (it would always be in some temple or something) and come back and beat the Jedi and the Republicto near extinction.

The darkside did some cool stuff in the comics I've read (Tales of the Jedi). Exar Kun made a star go nova using the dark side to help in his escape from pursuers. There was also magic such as illusions and stuff like that.

One thing I attribute this to is the fact that in Ep1 he's with his Mother (up until Qui-Gon takes him). When he was a little kid, he was pure of heart, but string & able to stand up to the bully-types in his life, and he did so in a positive way - and it was his Mother's influence that helped him be that way. It wasn't until after he left his home and his mother that he felt fear and uncertainess, leading to the issues we see in Ep2 & 3.

i completely agree....watching the OT, i always got the impression that the Clone Wars played a huge part in Anakin's descent ala that crazy dude played by Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now. Lucas' stated intention was to tell a story about how a man went from being a good person to an evil killer....as far as the PT is concerned, that story hasn't been told well enough IMO. Like you said...Episode I Anakin is just too different from the Ep II version...i mean, i understand there's no way a 9 -year old kid will resemble his 19-year old version, but since we need to deal with Anakin's characterisation more fully, we should have started with an older Anakin....

Lucas says that he needed to start with a 9-year old so that we could know where Anakin came from, and that ppl have problems with that because a kid doesn't carry a movie....my problem is that, given the nuanced nature of Anakin's turn, we needed more time to establish the character of Anakin closer to his Vader persona...since Ep I Anakin's so different, he doesn't even serve the purpose of establishing Anakin-going-toward-Vader....a lot of what we know from Ep I could have been established thru expository dialogue...

this is why the turn feels rushed to me in ROTS, as well as the whole Padme-Anakin love affair in AOTC...it's funny, because the entire premise of Anakin's turn hinges on his almost obsessive love for Padme, and yet that isn't really that well established....

given the story that needed to be covered in three movies, Lucas left himself very little time starting out with a 9-year old kid in the first one...

Exactly. It could have tied in nicely to Yoda's 'wars do not make one great'. Anakin becoming a hero through war, using his Force powers to kill and destroy and ultimately enjoying that. Not to say that war is always wrong, I still think that you can make it look like it's necessary to fight a war for the greater good and have the Jedi respond to that with complete apathy. So you root for Anakin at first but then later on you realize he has taken it too far.

Of course, showing Anakin as a little kid was a big mistake. He should have been older. In fact, the relationship with Padmé could have already been there. It doesn't have to be sexual at that point. Don't tell me he will be kicked out of the Jedi Order if he marries a girl, just let these stick-in-the-muds like Yoda and Mace frown upon such relationships where other Jedi (like Qui-Gon and Dooku) actually feel it's only natural.

Lucas could have really given us so much more information about what makes these Jedi tick. I really wanted to see Anakin slip away slowly toward the Dark Side. You want him to be more in touch with his feelings, you want him to be a real person. You want him to marry that girl, have kids. You want him to defend the oppressed, you want him to go to war for it. You want him to stick it to Yoda, to Mace, even to Obi-Wan for being such tightasses. You just don't want him to go over the edge and destroy everything but then he does and then it could have been unbearable.

I just don't care about Anakin now. I kinda liked Anakin in episode 1 but in episode 2 it was a completely different character. Of course, he was older now. But because everyone looked and acted differently and because the characters that were interesting in episode 1 were not there in episode 2 (Qui-Gon, Maul and even Jar Jar. Sure, he was annoying but he was basically always there so he grows on you. Like a rash. And then in episode 2 he has a cameo) so it felt like we had to start all over again. Plus, Anakin never really becomes a likeable character. He's never a hero. He's just whining and bitching and throwing tantrums. And he does it in episode 3 as well. To a lesser extent but that's not Vader, not the Vader I know. And it doesn't make the Vader I know more interesting, either.

But that's my opinion.

That's why I have a grudge against TPM. It's not a bad movie on it's own but it does screw up the prequel trilogy. What's the point of introduction if it doesn't set up almost anything (except Palpatin/Sidious but it can be moved to the later time).



Here I disagree. True, the emotional impact of ROTS would be stronger if there was more character development in the first two prequels but I did find Anakin quite likable in the beginning and still felt for him and other characters. Ironically, in order to do so you have to sort of forget the other prequels except for Palpatin's plot. Maybe because of that I already hear some fans stating that in the future they'll start watching Star Wars starts with episode III (and maybe some cool action bits from the first prequels like the duel in episode I). I don't agree with them but I understand where they're coming from.

you know at first i thought that but i can actually see why lucas played it out that way. He wanted us to see how innocent anakin was before he was corrupted by the emperor. We also needed to see the transition of how and why he turned to the darkside. I don't think I would believed that anakin turned to the dark side just out of curiosity. I mean, the jedi really in a way treated him unfairly. They were holding him back. Any one of us who grew up in a big family who just wanted the attention they deserve should understand that. He knew he was special but didn't feel like the jedi cared what he was. The only person who told him how special he was died. And when he feel in love with padme he didn't want the same fate happen to her that happened to his mohter. Of course he was going to be whinning in AOTC. What do you expect from a potential powerful teenager who feels like he isn't appreciated? He is no diff from the football, track. basketball ego players in high school. By the time we get to episode 3 he feels like he wasted most of his time following the way of the jedi and not reaching his full power of being respected by the council. Palpatine feed on that and rolled with it. In a way the jedi were also wrong and like palpatine said the sith and jedi think alike in some ways. Anakin just wanted to save the one he loved and when palpatine (the only person that was there and listen to anakin) told him he can saved her he jumped at the chance to do it. But realized at the end how much of a mistake that was. Its all part of life and i know half of us can related to that. so i can buy all that.

It's sort of true that it doesn't really set up much in terms of plot, but there is a lot of stuff in there that is necessary to the prequals. In that sense the movie gives us a lot of background--the prophecy, sith rule of two, midichlorians (which on a side note makes me think that Lucas originally intended Anakin's origins to be the sith then changed it to be vague). It may be a lot of expostion, but it isn't needless exposition. A lot of it comes into play in the later films, and that understanding from Episode I enriches those themes and ideas.

Also, I think it was Lucas's intention to start small. He could've moved up the timeline, but on a more thematic level, I think it's awesome how this great story starts with some minor quibble, Anakin is stumbled upon by chance, and this sweet little boy comes to change the galaxy.

The story underneath the movie's are great, but I do agree that that there is some problems with fully executing his vision on film.

I think a lot of fans wanted an older Anakin. Hell, Lucas knew he would catch a lot of flack for his decision, but I'm glad that he went with a young Anakin.



I think the connection from 1 to 2 relied MUCH MORE heavily on the love for Padme, and I think that is the crux of why the character doesn't work for some people.

IF the affection in Episode I was more endearing, AND the full-blown love in Episode II was more heartfelt and moving, THEN, I think that connection would be much, much more prominent. The love would really be the core of the character that we connect to in the prequals, and the simmering bitterness of Anakin's that slowly turns from fear (Ep. 1) to impatience (Ep. 2) to anger (Ep. 3), would be the contrast to that, with the loss of the one thing he truly loves being that which pushes him over the edge.

The whiny, arrogant Anakin is still there in Episode III, but the frustration has turned more towards of an anger bubbling beneath the surface, and a lot of confusion about who to trust. In that sense the character seems fairly consistent to me.

I think that was Lucas's intentions, whether the films accomplished that is up to debate. But as I've said, the story, to me, is fantastic in construction, but maybe could've come across better on screen.

But only midichlorians are explained. I have to hunt down Lucas's interviews to make sure I know what he means by balance of the Force and the rest of his ideas.


Yes, I though so when I heard it was in the rough draft of Episode III. But in this case I like that Lucas has left it open so we could decide for ourselves.



Oh, I absolutely agree, these concepts make saga more interesting and complex than before we knew about them. Even familiar situation in OT take a new meaning because of them. I guess what I wanted from TPM is to be more like ANH: that movie establishes characters and plots and at the same time gives an overview of the Force, Jedi, backstory of the characters. TPM because of the time gap, loss of some of the characters and drastic transformation of others feels like a prequel to prequels rather than a proper set up the saga.



I like this idea but was there really a need to devote an entire movie to this? Especially since he's so different in the next movie. It could have been shown in flashbacks or force visions.



Maybe if his part was more prominent, so you really got the feeling it's about him (like John Connor in T2) and he was a better developed character AND the actor was better some fans wouldn't mind this decision so much.



It's not just the love story. Anakin/Obi-Wan's relationship is also underdeveloped. In Episode I they barely speak to each other, Kenobi thinks it's another "pathetic life form", is gainst Qui-Gon's taking Anakin as his apprentice, agrees with the council that's "the boy is dangerous" and finally takes his as his padawan only because it was his master's dying wish. Anakin, I think, is indifferent towards Obi-Wan until the end. In Episode II they seem to be mostly annoyed with one another and although Anakin claims Obi-Wans is like father to him it's not really shown. Now in Episode III is the only time when you can really feel that they're friends and brothers-in-arms, and even if they argue there's genuine affection between them. Now suppose if it was Obi-Wan Kenobi, not Qui-Gon Jinn, who found Anakin on Tatooine, believed in him and defended him before the council? Woulnd't it make their final break up and duel to the death more tragic and poignant? That's the problem with TPM: a lot of time is spent on Qui-Gon, who could serve his purpose just as well as a secondary character but not nearly enough on the central characters of the saga.



He is, I just wish Lucas toned out his angry outbursts and make his frustration with his place in the Jedi order more subtle in Episode two so he would be more likable. Because right now Anakin from the beginning of ROTS resembles a grown-up version of that brave talented kid from Tatooine a lot more than that whiny teen from Episode II. I understand what Lucas was trying to say but the transition on screen could be a bit more smooth.



It's no doubt a great saga if somewhat flawed in execution. Personally, I'm glad that Lucas has decided to finish the saga and we can now appreciate the fantastic story of Anakin Skywalker in its entirety.

While I agree with what you are saying about Padme, even knowing they are going to get together makes the Anakin/Padme relationship a little creepy. He's a child, she's not. Yes, she's supposed to be 14 but the part is not written or played like (or by) a 14 year old. So you get what looks like a young 9 year old and a girl who could be 18 or so and, when they share looks, it's just a little off. Which didn't help Ep2 when Anakin turns up a grown man and she looks maybe a year or so older and is not written any older at all. So I don't think having the affection in Ep1 being more endearing would have helped matters at all.



Well, yes it does. But both the Sith rule and midichlorians could have been dropped entirely and it would have affected only one solitary word of the next two films. The prophesy contributed more but, again, it's something I don't think proved its worth in the prequels. The story could have played out exactly as is without it.

As many people have mentioned, the one plot that worked consistantly through the prequels was Palpatine's rise to power. This was handled brilliantly. But that could have been told in much the same way even if the time span had been less, being introduced to Anakin in his late teens.

Edit: Cantina Patron got there first and said it better than I could with this -

I understand this, but in a wierd sense that's actually what I like about the movie. It's small in scope, it meanders around Tatooine, taking it's time, and really all we get is those background ideas and the beginnings of the plot threads and ideas that will come into play later. I think it was meant to be that way, and that is why I like it. It's the small start to an epic tale, it's insignifigant, yet it's the start of everything.



I've never really thought about that. I always think of the love as the one constant that could've held together the prequals. Obi-wan is just an afterthought in Menace, and in that sense it is a real shame that Liam Neeson stole the show in my opinion. Imagine if both Obi-wan was a central character AND the relationship with Padme was more heartfelt--that, I think, would connect this trilogy in a much tighter way character wise.

Again, I know Lucas made the change to lessen Obi-wan's role, making Qui-Gon's character more prominent, and I can't blame him for that, since, as I've said, those are my favorite scenes from that movie.

Killing such a central character may have hurt the trilogy, since he downplayed Obi-wan so much in Menace. Maybe he wanted to echo A New Hope, with the death of the master. And it also worked for THAT movie by thrusting the chosen one upon the young Obi-wan when he wasn't really ready, and the idea works in principal, but since we never really get any sense of connection between Obi-wan and Anakin, that does further the sense of Menace being adrift. Looking back at the saga as a whole, I have to agree that Lucas's initial motivations to have Obi-wan more central would've strengthened and unified the saga more, but I won't complain since Qui-Gon is one of my favorite characters.