Just a heads up, this weekend Ebert, and Roeper are going to be reviewing ROTS. For those who live in Chicago, its on Sat. @ 10:35pm, and Sunday @ 10:30am.

http://tvplex.go.com/buenavista/ebertandroeper/today.html to find what time, and station for your city.

Thanks for the heads up. Even though I don't live in Chichago I will have to TiVo it cause it's on really late where I am.

It's on Saturday at 6:30pm here. I'll definitely watch it.

Spoke with an ILMer who gushed and raved after the preview screening at the Sony METREON in SF last weekend. He may be, you know, slightly biased.

But he did tell me a few interesting tid-bits. Muddy Yoda is OUT. (Georgie-boy probably would've been slapped with tar baby racial accusations... ) And the droid-voiced silliness is reduced but not totally gone. There's apparently a little shoving between Grievous and a droid with a zany droid voice.

I was expecting an unmitigated disaster with this movie. I'm pleasantly surprised that the reviews seem to indicate that wooden acting, stilted dialogue, CGI, blah, blah aside ... the movie hits the target by being enjoyable. Anyway. It's not too late for George and company to CGI in Lora Croft's assets on C3P0 in the digital version to win the Ebert vote.

Yup, PT's acting is just fine. Ewan has done a great job, Liam was solid, Portman is OK, Hayden is pretty good. Sure, Harrison Ford cannot be beat in an action/adventure movie, there's no doubt there. But aside from that, the PT stacks up w the OT easily.

I'm fairly immune to public consensus as far as opinion shaping goes. But to deny that the majority of the performances in the prequels are on the stiff side ... is pretty oblivious.

Even Mark "Corvette Summer" Hammill resonated more than Sam Jackson does in these movies. That lends credence to the observation that something has degraded in the acting department. You'll say, "But Sam Jackson's a Jedi! That's how Jedi ACT." Heck, I'll be telling myself that one when I'm sitting in the theater as I try to switch off my inner-critic during the movie so I can kick back and enjoy.

So let's go with Natalie Portman vs. Carrie Fischer. You can say, "Amidala is a politician! That's how they act!" So was Princess Leia ... and she had fire.

See, it's the combination of stilted dialogue and a director who is a little impatient as far as the human side of things goes. The guy's mind functions at pod racer speeds and it doesn't always want to slow down to coax a nuanced smile or a convincing reading of a line. He leaves that to the actors who are stationed in glowing blue rooms. There is inherent trouble in doing this and it gives birth to some less-than-convincing results. But if we had to trade the George Lucas with the racing imagination for a George Lucas who was overly concerned with acting and less conerned with dreaming up fantastic planets and scenarios... there wouldn't be Star Wars.

Some fans will justify to the ends out of the outer rim because of their Lucas love. That's adorable. But don't get so fanatical as to accuse my opinion of being nothing more than the rote chanting of the brainwashed. You can't admit that there's some serious issues with the acting / dialogue ... at least Lucas did. Why else would he have used Coppola's dialogue coach this time out? (Gleaned from the DuPont review, of course.)

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts ... f20050105/

That's just the asinine kind of thinking that made the reaction to the PT so harsh. Yeah, Leia had fire, but so what, so do characters in Starship Trooper movies. Fire does not equal character or good acting. Where's the law that states a character needs fire? Needs to be feisty? I love Leia, but Padme admittedly is a deeper character, without question. And that's even considering how poorly Lucas translated her character from script to screen. Padme is still a more intricate character than Leia. And Portman does a good job of showing her Queen versus real life side in TPM.

In a lot of ways, the PT's approach to acting and characterization was much more serious than in the OT, and as a result, its called "stilted", "boring", "wooden". That's downright stupid.

It's called "stilted" and "wooden" because, for the most part, it's "stilted" and "wooden." The blame is attached mostly to Lucas, because he chose to direct. And when you listen to the guy talk you can tell it's "stilted" and "wooden" because that's how Lucas talks these days. "Stilted" and "wooden."

Perhaps you talk this way in your real life with a creepy monotone as you ramble on about how someone stole your stapler and how it's making you want to burn down the office. That's great. In that case everyone in the PT talks normally and the only people that talk in a manner that you consider strange are people who vary the inflection of their voices.

You're funny. "...That's even considering how poorly Lucas translated her character from script to screen" one minute and "don't call it wooden! Waaaaah!" the next.

Hey. Here's another great idea for Being An Apologist For Dummies! Claim that in an advanced society everyone has learned to talk in stilted wooden monotone because it's better for the throat muscles.

I agree. In AOTC, when Obi asked Anakin 'What would Padme do were she in your situation?', I think everybody knew right away what she would do. The characters are there. I don't really subscribe to the idea that any/all SW movies have uniquely bad dialogue or acting. I think they tend to have specific moments that are awkward, but as a rule, they're comparable to the average blockbuster movie, at least. I'd say Harrison and Natalie are the 'worst' in the series, so for me, the trilogies are balanced in this regard. But nobody in the OT gives a performance like Ian does in the first two, and apparently in this one.

You, sir, are a rambling incoherent nut ball that will justify things in the most elaborate and sociopathic manner possible. And it's incredibly amusing!

It boils down to this: Some people have a tin ear concerning dialogue. Lucas does. You two guys do. The beauty of that is that you don't hear it! They cross one another out! You're immune! That's fantastic! It creates more joy in your life as your love of the movies aren't hampered by the stiff, wooden deliveries! I congratulate you. Your proverbial color-blindness in that regard allows you to appreciate all that's good about this particular work of art and absolutely miss the ugliness. It's a genetic mutation that many latter day SW die-hards have evolved as a protection.

I'm glad that I'm reading both of your responses in a forum where I can mentally add inflection, emphasis and oomph. If you both talk the same way that PT characters do in real life I'd have zoned out three sentences in.

Regarding the justifications! Keep them coming. I really loved the one about Anakin only knowing old women on the Jedi Council. That was a knee-slapper. Hahahahahaha! If Han Solo had acted that way you'd probably have said, "He's mostly kept company with a Wookie and has therefore forgotten how to act like a normal man." Oh! Oh! Catching my breath! You guys are GREAT!

I can get into the restraint. And I'm happy that the SW characters aren't acting like the Firefly characters. That would be the other side of ugly and wouldn't have fit in the SW universe. But this thing (The PT) does err on the side of stiff acting and it would have been better if it hadn't. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. I'm glad the last movie is enjoyable ... stiff, wooden acting and all!

Much of the acting in the PT has been labeled as bad, or stiff, or wooden. Some is justifiably so, while some can be explained away by circumstances (that covered later). Therefore, it would not be a terribly hard step to assume that much of the acting is actually wooden-etc.

However, let's take a step back. Which performances have really recieved this "wooden" (the term I shall now use to encompass all those adjectives with which it is kin) criticism? Going through all the [main] actors in the trilogy: Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, Ian McDermid, Ewan McGregor, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christensen. Of those, three are notable for having been considered wooden: Christensen, Portman, and Lloyd. I would attribute much of this to comparitive age of character. Christensen is what, 18 in ATOC, Lloyd is 8-ish in TPM, and Portman is 14 in TPM. (Let me start this by conceding that Portman did not really do a great job, critically, in ATOC. I really have no problem with it, and would even say that I cannot see the "truly bad acting" that has been attributed to her, but critically so she has been deemed, and so I shall concede that.) All of these people are coming across as wooden because they are young characters. Children are not supposed to come across as deep or emotionally sound, which is why it is creepy when some do (i.e. Haley Joel O.).

In my mind, and maybe you're right, maybe I am just "colorblind to dialogue," as you so well put it, but it would seem that the majority of the bad acting can be attributed to actors attempting to portray a character, and succeeding at portraying that type of character.

The acting and dialogue in the Prequels are intended to be the way that they are. People need to get out of this realm of wanting to hear dialogue in these Prequels like regular films. These are anything but....

Everything must be different in it's presentation, including the dialogue simply because this is a different era, with a different set of people. It's not the era that we've known in the past. It makes sense for the dialogue and the acting to be the way it is. Granted, there are maybe one or two gripes I have with Episodes I and II, but on the whole, everyone is solid.

And regarding Portman, I don't understand the problem some have with her. In Episode I, she played both characters beautifully. There is a clear distinction between Amidala and Padme. But you also have to look at her age. She's 14. As Amidala, she can't show any hint of fear or conflict. She has to be dead in the face because if she shows any kind of fear or weakness, that's it for her people. That's it for anyone following orders from her. So, the way Portman played her in that film was beautiful. Just totally cold but in control for her age. And I think that was the point.

In Episode II, it's not so much what Natalie says but what Natalie says with her eyes and her body language in that film. Add the interesting wardrobe and you get a sense of her character. I know it sounds stupid but I found her eyes and her body language tell me what Padme's character is more than her actually dialogue. Clearly her best scene in the film is the picnic scene and the scene on the refugee shuttle.

The problem with Portman is that she just doesn't have a great voice for that role and the ADR clearly shows that. I love her to death but I'm glad they changed her voice in Episode I...made a lot of sense. Sometimes, she has the wrong inflection in certain spots and that's part of acting. If you got back to the trailers of Episodes I and II, she has the absolute right inflection in her voice but once she hits ADR, it's off sometimes and I think that's part of it.

Still, I'm glad she's playing Padme and I'm glad she's playing Padme differently than Leia because most fans wanted a carbon copy of Leia in the Prequels..

I could care less about any reveiws griping about the stiff dialouge and wooden acting. Same old, same old.

Now excuse me while I take my tin-ear and continue building my backyard shrine to George Lucas, reciting every line of dialouge from the meadow picnic and fireside scenes as I work.

Something would have been very off indeed.

Surefire way to get everyone calmed down and then curled into a fetal position crying.

You're right. Your manner of arguing isn't sociopathic. It just makes me think you're probably a sociopath. I hope that's all cleared up. And piling on the justification doesn't make something justified. It just makes you a very, very funny little man.

This argument has run it's course a million times. You can't convince apologists that a good chunk of the delivery is wooden because it's easier for them to make their action figures speak in wooden monotones when they're at home, in their foul, soiled underwear pretending a chunk of shag carpeting is Naboo.

"I. Love. You. Plo. Koon."

"My. Goodness. This. Is. An. Unexpected. Twist. Boss. Nass."

"Let's. Go. Make. The. Rancor. With. Two. Backs."

"Right. Behind. You. ... Literally."

Jake Lloyd was a fucking kid. I'd like to see you do better at the age of 12 or whatever his age was.

There is a difference between "stoic" and "wooden". Some characters just have downplayed emotions. Do you know anything about storytelling, filmmaker, acting, or anything of the sort? Do you think Clint Eastwood is "wooden"? Is Meryl Streep "wooden"? Obviously I'm not comparing Neeson or Portman's TPM performance to actors such as that, I'm just pointing out that sometimes subdued performances are the best. If we go by who has the most "fire" and "festiness" than Wing Commander and Battlefield Earth would probly rake in Oscars.



Again, if a voice lacks inflection, why don't you think for one second and try contemplating why the director would make a totally concsious choice of making that voice lack inflection? Perhaps it tells us about the person, maybe??


It's called being objective. Lucas could've done a better job translating Padme's character to script in both TPM and AOTC based on the screenpalys. But Portman did a good job at what he wanted her to do and created a pretty intricate character, nonetheless. Is there something wrong with this statement?? It seems like you are trying to divide the world into people who like the PT and people who like the OT. It's not that black and white.



WOAH!! GOoooooood One!! I'm going to write that gem down and save it for later.


PS - you got owned by just about everyone who has posted after me, so this might be irrellevant at this point.

Bad example. Haley Joel Osment was that age when The Sixth Sense was made, and he did a fantastic job. Dakota Fanning is pretty good for a kid, too.

Dakota Fanning is really fucking good. Haley Joel is hugely overrated, IMO. He fell off the planet, too, didn't he? Has he done a movie since?

Well, my point was that HJO was really good in Sixth Sense

Nope. Nothing since.

Except Artificial Intelligence, Pay It Forward, Secondhand Lions.

Nothing except those. You drooling retard.

I'm sorry, I've never seen any of the above. I don't watch trash.

Wow...Devin's review at CHUD is interesting. He rips almost everything (including the fact that vader sheds tears, imagine giving a character a little more depth than "bad ass jedi") but gives it a 7 out of 10.

I'm still never going to understand people who act personally assaulted over these movies.

Oh. Sorry. I forgot about your extremely picky tastes.

Did this guy have a wooden enough delivery for you?



Or did you miss this movie also?

Well put!

Man, you are just on fire with the comedy. You should have your own "Whose Line is it Anyway?" type show. Are you going to even acknowledge any of the points being made or just respond with stupid insults.

ugh... pay it forward. what a crapwagon that was.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005286/

Mostly voice stuff. Puberty probably wasn't kind.

Yeah. They were pretty obscure releases. I think they ran at a couple of indie theaters unless PRIMER was hogging those screens.

What's this bullshit about Osment's "great performance" in The Sixth Sense? Let's see, he acts scared when he's in a dark closet or a dark attic. Take any child and throw him in an attic or closet with no lights and he's going to look really scared -because he IS scared!

By this logic, Randy Spears is a great actor because every time he gets a blowjob onscreen from Jenna Jameson or Kylie Ireland, he does a great job of pretending to enjoy it.

Give me a fucking break!

I don't know where you get your delusions from, laserbrain.

Isn´t that an oxymoron?

Not that I want to JOIN this lovely debate or anything...

...but I always thought poor Jake Lloyd got the shaft, bigtime. He acted like a starry eyed 9 year old boy to me--I was quite surprised when the world ripped him a new asshole.

...you have to be a hell of a director to get good performances out of kids. Talent or no, on the set they're impatient, and easily distracted. Even the best SAG kids require a ton of patience and effort to get performances from. They have great imagination, and they're not at all self-conscious, but that's only half the battle.

What the hell happened to this thread?

People started to use pictures to get their humor/point across.

Okay. I'll respond to his post comment by comment.

Yup. Nope. No.

Nuh-uh.

Yes, there's something wrong with that statement.

Okay. You do that.

Now can you get back to my points? Especially the ones about hiring a dialogue coach this time out? I really won't be able to rest until I can get the fully delusional input of a half literate forum scrub. Be sure to respond with your signature misspellings and vitriolic sheep oversensitivity or I'll think you were mugged and replaced by an impersonator with a high school diploma.

I agree, BitzKrieg!

Hush up with all your whinging joe_h and Manny Ortez! This thread is about the media reaction, gosh darnit!

Oh, and...update your links, homo:

http://splicedwire.com/05reviews/starwars3.html

Quotes:

"Here's your "Revenge of the Sith" review in a nutshell: It may well be the best of all six "Star Wars" movies -- with the caveat that you need to have seen the other five films to truly grasp its significance."

"These elements, coupled with much improved dialogue, far fewer scenes transparently designed to foster inevitable tie-in video games, and genuinely compelling emotions make up for the myriad of shortcomings that plagued the previous two "Star Wars" prequels."

(I like that part about the improving dialogue.)

"But the heart of this film -- even more so than its sci-fi action and its complete immersion in Lucas's visionary universe -- is the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker's descent into darkness. It redefines the entire "Star Wars" saga to such a degree that even if this isn't the best of the bunch, it is unquestionably the most pivotal."

A) Blitzkrieg was probly talking about you since you started this 3 page onslaught of idiocy by bitching about the acting then proceeding to, without any kind of provocation, insult pretty much everyone who responded to your asinine points.
B) You are, in fact, a newbie.
C) I'd be perfectly happy to get this thread back on track, that was the intent of me, Jedi Strider and anyone else who proved your posts to be retarded
D) The tally was only a temporary thing, I haven't been updating for days, there's this great website you can go to called www.rottentomatoes.com

So shut the fuck up and stop bitching about people and insulting them with stupid ass lame jokes. Nobody made this get uncivil and stupid but you.

Holy fucking shit! The Tomatometer is at 93%!

Out of all the reviews at Rotten Tomatoes, only two are negative. Unfuckingbelievable.

We have only one week and one night!

Thursday we will see the new Xbox and next Wednesday we will see the final Star Wars ever. [Vader]This will be a [week] long remembered...[/Vader]

I envy all you guys on here that have gotten to see it already. Had I been richer, I would have gone to a charity event on Thursday.

What other major film reviewers have yet to weigh in on this? I know Ebert is still out. I haven't been keeping up with this thread since about the 4th page. Has EmpireOnline done one yet?

I see that TFN pretty much only took the time to highlight the negative aspects of reviews in their little review section.

Chitwood is such an asswipe.

TFN is like that chick that was hot in highschool, but you came back to the reunion and she was some fat attention mongering whore. Since about midway into the AOTC waiting period, its been nothign but fat attention mongering whore.

You're all right. I'm trying to fit in. And it's finally occurred to me how to make you all my dear, precious, love-friends. With an earnest plea! Enough of these sly tactics.

Please accept me into your zit-ridden, unbathed, virginal, identity-based-on-movie herd you bunch of filthy, disgusting nerds.

Now do you believe my plea for acceptance?

Oh, who am I kidding! Manny nailed it. I like cussing. Yep. Nothing like some cussin' to make a man feel like a man! Look at my post history and you'll learn a few new blue words that George Carlin never even thought of, son!

I remember what I said that started this tirade as if it only happened yesterday... It was when I said:



Yes. Thems was fighting words!

--Ghosty

PS for whathisface ... Look up the word "whinging." I'm sure an explanation is available at your precious dictionary.com.

I think there is something quite important that many of you (and the reviewers) have missed. There is a difference between OT and PT performances but it is quite deliberate. For the last 15 years GL has been a sufferer of Voice Immodulation Syndrome. It can make what you say seem very dull to the uncharitable ear. Many of the public misconstrue this to think that V I S sufferers actually are dull. V I S makes it impossible to alter or inflect your tone making your voice regular. GL has assembled a multitude of V I S sufferers for the PT and has proved that despite monotonic delivery, you can still reap average performances. I cannot understand how Pete Sampras did not get a role. I too suffer with V I S but have endeavoured to overcome this challenge. I have made a living on sex phone lines where my "role" is a sex robot. I have thus incorporated my VIS into my professional life just as the PT cast have. GL has raised awareness of VIS worldwide with the PT. For that I applaud him. (starts flat dull handclapping)

joking aside,a poor delivery for a line isnt the only thing going on in a scene in a SW film,its never leapt out at me and spoiled a scene.If it had, I doubt I'd be here.

I haven't been keeping tabs on the man since I heard he left the Times, (other than his great radio show on KCRW, "The Treatment") but does he still review new releases and (if so) where can you find them? A quickie Google search on my end turned up zilch in as much as an "official" site.

Hey,leave Afro be, he said I can empty my full bladder on him, Kaiser Soze style, swish

I think Elvis Mitchell mostly just does NPR stuff these days; the last thing I heard him do was a retrospective when Ossie Davis died recently.
The fact that more people hear and are (probably) influenced by Gene Shalit than Elvis Mitchell is pretty sad.

Fatboy Roberts Guide 2 Bein' Liked By My Peeps

Dedicated to MannyOrtez And Other Intelligent People!

"Hry gang..Mmrmph. Mmrmph. Sorry. Jusht finishing off thish bag of Rufflesh brand potater chipsh. Mmrmph. Ahhh..."

gulp.

"If you guys want to become the belle of the ball ... the ball is MF.com Forums! And the belle is the one who gets pats on the back from all the embarassingly awkward other posters here! ... If you want that ... Do witty things like... Do word-counts on people's posts!"

snort-snort-snort.

"They love that! Oooh! A Hostess Ding Dong! My granny used to always reward me for lickin' my plate clean by lettin me watch the Holiday Special! Now I always compulsively come back for seconds and thirds and fourthsies! Just like I'm doing in this thread with this guy I supposedly look down on! God, I'm jolly!"

--Ghostywriter

joe: Dude, that'd suck because I need to get spoilers for all those upcoming Star Wars movies.

Oh hey wai