Its the converse of what Yoda tells Anakin in TPM

Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering

Trust leads to Joy, Joy leads to Love, Love leads to Enlightenment

That being said, I still think the secret to the force being "love" is a pretty lame idea. But I must confess Im interested in seeing how it all goes down.

It's like ROTS has taken a 180 degree turn with all this talk of peace, and love, and good happiness stuff.

where's the dark foreboding and mass limb removal gone????

Emperor’s Prize wrote:



dcbar10der wrote:



This, along with talk of exploding ewoks, is the funniest stuff I've read on here in months... thanks guys.

As Fatboy Roberts might say, "comedy gold." You guys should write more dialogue

As Fats and 'chilled have said, I think this might be getting a little out of hand. I can see "speculation becoming fact" pretty quickly here.

Having said that, some of this stuff sounds pretty neat, and seems to fit with the big picture. Although I have to say - if your casual fan hears that the big secret of the Force is "love" than the final nail in the coffin of public opinion of Star Wars will probably be driven. I can't see that being taken too well.

I'm fine with that, though. Lucas is clearly making these films for himself and doesn't care all that much about what we think. I know I'll love it, so screw everyone else.

Whoa...Anakin/Luke is NOT a reincarnation of Qui-Gon!

Tern at TF.n:

A few of you asked me about the pic with Obi-Wan standing outside the surgery talking to this droid. This happens at the beginning of the scene.

DROID
All organic damage has been repaired and this systemic failure cannot be explained.

Also, the pic of Obi, Yoda and Bail at the Conference Table on the Tantive IV is the beginning of the discussions concerning Beru and Owen, Alderaan, Tatooine, and Yoda's surprise comment to Obi-Wan.

There, finally a straightforward answer! Thanks, Tern!

That makes it sound like she died of a broken heart more than anything else.

Seems they aren't all that medically advanced in SW after all. A few anti-depressants would have sorted her right out.

Dogg.

Surely the repair of all organic damage would include a 'broken heart'

Hey, all this clandestine bullshit that keeps dripping down like Chinese Water-torture gets my mind going.


It was miles better than Palpatine is Sidious´ clone, though.

More from Tern

word!

I would like to know if this is movie stuff or book stuff. Fatboys stance on all this neh neh look what I know shit is making more and more sense. I hope the legacy of this site after ep3 hits isn't similar to the one griffin left behind.

I´m slowly beginning to realize why some people have mocked Ternian in the past, this behaviour isn´t helping him.


You don´t say... How´s about sharing it, so people can decide for themselves?

It´s probably just love again, or letting go of everything because you love them or some self-sacrificial mumbojumbo. The spiritual teachings in SW never captured my attention that much.

oooo but why does he say "anakin/luke" is luke incarnated out of the parts of midis that just died from anakin

WTF? I thought Tern said a few pages ago that the secret of the force and the twist was really great... Now it's crap?

Can someone please make sense out of all this? Is the secret "love" or not? Why does Yoda look stupid?

Why is some shit in yellow and other shit in orange?

As mentioned above it seems that this great secret could be something along the lines of:

You can experience the full power of the force once you are prepared to give up, let go of all your individual needs

Vader - stops wanting life and power
Yoda - stops trying to teach/control the destiny of others
Obi-Wan - stops trying convince/beat his padawan

All sacrifice themselves to do this?

Joseph Campbell tells a little Buddhist parable in one of his books about how this thoughtful young monk is wandering through town and sees a bunch of live crabs for sale in a market. He feels compassion for them, buys the entire crate and carries them out to the shore to let them free.

So he opens the crate and as the crabs make their crawl to the sea, all these seagulls swoop in and start gobbling the crabs up, just eating them all. The monk flips out and is trying to scare the gulls away, but the crabs all get eaten. Some master is watching all this play out and is laughing his ass off.

Why does the master think this is funny? Because the young monk made the mistake of picking a side (the side of the crabs) in thinking he was being compassionate - the goal is detatchment from the world, pulling yourself away from that level of life, "letting go". The post above made me think of that - the disappearing Jedi all having the one thing in common: taking their hands off the wheel and saying "thy (the Force) will be done" - the same thing Luke does in the Death Star trench, sorta.

I dunno, maybe there is something in that.

Regarding the deletions and colors - I have pruned assloads of novel sized posts, trekkie style posts, and posts with way too many emoticons and colors.

Using tons of [color] [underline] [bold] [i] [b] [size] and emoticons is not the way to go here.




Ternian thinks that the love thing being the secret of the force is crappish.



tc edit: I've pruned some crap too. Just fyi.

you guys are still talking about this?

i bet tern/lucas is laughing his ass off...

If it's love, then I think that is a great message.

In fact, I don't think it's even a new concept to the Saga. Compassion and love are what saved Luke and Anakin. Obi-Wan and Yoda had to sacrafice themselves for the future. All these acts take love. They all work, but when you say "love" it's sounds a bit corny. But in the end, it's been that way the whole time. Works for me.

thanks because I seriously had no friggin clue what he said

Maybe it's what people do with that love that counts -

People say over and over again (me included) that Anakin's problem was that he couldn't let go. He had attachments he couldn't break, he couldn't walk away from. This basically drove him to the Dark Side.

Or did it?

Is it possible that Anakin turned to the Dark Side not because he was a flawed person who could not let go of attachment, but because so many people tried to tear him away from those attachments - from those he loved? Maybe it wasn't his flaw at all.

Look at the difference in the OT - Luke was attached to Leia, Han, everybody. He loved them as a team, as friends. But he would never dream of letting go of them. He would always go to save them. The main difference between him and Anakin is not that Anakin was evil - it is that everyone around Luke allowed him to hold onto his attachments, what he loved. His attachments gave him power.

And maybe that is the difference about Qui-Gon - he kept more attachments. He allowed them maybe?

But maybe it was Yoda, the Council and Obi-Wan who created Anakin by trying to tear him away from his loves - his humanity. His attachments themselves weren't the problem. And ultimately, it was a son's love for his father that righted everything - a parental attachment that the Jedi would have removed in the PT.

Dogg.

I was thinking exactly that same thing. If it's true that Yoda goes to Dagobah to "unlearn what he has learned" and be more hippie, then it doesn't make sense that he's still an arrogant fuckbag when Luke comes along.

...or does it? Maybe we'll understand more once Tern stops faffing about with the way he's posting cryptically and across 2 message boards. Not that I'm not grateful.

Look, Qui-Gon being an all knowing Jedi I just refuse to believe. First of all, he didn't know how dangerous Anakin was. Yoda and Mace obviously knew... why not him. And he didnt let himself get struck down by Darth Maul, like Obi-Wan did with Vader. Thirdly, Qui-Gon Jinn couldn't stop Anakin's slaughter of the Tusken Raiders. We all heard him yell at Anakin, and it did nothing. This does not sound like a great Jedi. Wise, sure, but not all-knowing all-powerful. He screwed up plenty in life and I don't think he'd be much better in death. As far as great Jedi go, he was simply good. No more, no less.

Yoda thinks that Luke is not ready to face Vader and knew full well that Vader was using Luke's friends to lure him into a trap. However, when it comes down to it, he lets him go. Anakin would have got a flat out refusal, whereas Yoda says something along the lines of 'save them if you must'.

The only thing I've still never fully understood about that is why Obi-Wan says he can't help him if he goes...

Dogg.

Ah, like the all-knowing Josh Griffin? That´s a bigger twist than the one in the spoilers.

He was trying to discourage Luke. He thought that if he said that, Luke might think twice about going - if he knew he were going to have to face Vader solo. I mean it would be one thing for him to go face Vader if he knew Ben would back him up if things went south - it's another thing altogether to go with the knowledge that you're on your own - totally. That whole line of dailogue was just meant to test the resolve of Luke & to set up the fact that, in the next movie, he would do what he had to do to bring his father from the dark.

I think that Obi-Wan says he can't help him because it is basically Luke's own Jedi trial. The point where he & his skills are tested to determine his becoming a Jedi Knight.

Ben says that if Luke stops his training right then without going any further he will be at great risk to turning to the darkside. Yoda & Ben knew he wasnt ready to face Vader yet. But if he chose to do it then that was his supposed destiny & thus Ben saying " I cannot interfere."

Only later after facing other obstacles & living through his first duel with Vader that Luke could stand up in ROTJ & say" You failed your highness, I am a Jedi. Like my father before me." He had finally passed his trial & was now a Jedi Knight.

Bottom line is that the force tells Ben to not muck up the works. He wouldnt be doing the kid any favors by helping.

Yeah, I like the trial explanation Sluggo. Works for me.

And I'd totally go along with Vile's idea of being loved being important. That makes a lot of sense to me. It does make me wonder about the normal Master/Padawan relationship though and how much love is there, or not there.

Dogg.

because he's a damn force ghost, they can only talk not fight

A long time ago, I posted on the SW.com forums that I thought the identity retention thing takes place because of Anakin. He's so posessive and strong in the force that eople hang around, even after they die.. hence his ability to "keep people from dying."

I guess there's two ways to look at that, now. Vader might be able to hang on to life with the force, by manipulating the midis the bad guy way, as explained when Tern said that the Sith control the midis.

Luke causes the identity retention of Ben, Yoda, and ultimately Anakin, because he loves them so much.. not because he's "forcing" them to hang around for selfish reasons.

That's fucking money right there. I think you got it.

good thinking!

but how do you think qui-gon factors in to this theory? i mean, something brings qui-gon back - who is it, who loves / has such strong feelings for him as to bring him back?

That's good, really good. I like that.

No shit Fatboy. Please get it to stop.

I think it's unfair to automatically dismiss the reincarnation theory. It could work if you just consider it. Think about this -

Spoilers indicate that Chewie helps Yoda escape from Kashyyk. We also know that the Clonetroopers are likely to turn on the Wookies. If you put 2 + 2 together you can see that both Yoda and Chewie die/come close to dying, and Qui-Gon ultimately inhabits the body of Chewbacca. He then uses the Force to help him escape the planet and tells him where a similiar planet (Dagobah) is. This explains why we don't see a Force ghost of Qui-Gon in RotJ. It's because he's already there! Or here's a better idea - Qui-Gon's spirit posseses a pot roast along with Rob Schnider and Steve Martin. This is going to be the basis of the Star Wars TV Series which will be called All of my pot-roast.

On top of all that -

True from a certain point of view = lie

These speculations to try to justify OT lines that now don't fit, specifially Obi-Wan's lies, using "certain points of view" are doomed to fail. Not everything is going to fit, nor does it have to.

Dogg.

source: cinelive.com

Whoa. Cool. "La Force va mal."

Wow, Anakin looks much taller in that last shot.

Dogg.