Vanity Fair via The Atlantic:



• [Abrams] said Lucas’s treatment had centered on very young characters—teenagers, Lucasfilm told me—which might have struck Disney executives as veering too close for comfort to The Phantom Menace and its 9-year-old Anakin Skywalker and 13-year-old Queen Amidala. “We’ve made some departures” from Lucas’s ideas, Kennedy conceded, but only in “exactly the way you would in any development process.”



I didn't see any of this in the actual Vanity Fair article, but I wouldn't doubt that it's legit reporting.

Lucas • Tribeca Film Festival • April 17 2015:



• They’re [Disney] are doing a different story, I don’t even know anything about it.” “I hope it’s successful. They didn’t use my stories and they’ve taken it in a different direction"

Lucas • Strange Magic Interview • January 17 2015:



• The ones that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn't really want to do those. So they made up their own. So it's not the ones that I originally wrote"


Lucas stated his treatment was not used twice before. The last time the comments (featured above) were made during Celebration VII (thus overshadowed). The first Lucas comment (also featured above) was from last January during a interview with Cinema Blend.

Oh for Jesus Skywalking Fucking Christs sake.

It's a valid argument. Imagine how much more interesting Anakin could have been as an 18 year old rebellious slave. I think it was a mistake to disconnect 9 year old Ani from the other two prequels.

I hate to say this but... I told you all so. I knew they wouldn't use anything that Lucas wrote.

Re: Anakin - didn't early concept art depict Anakin as this 12 year old kid citing "Braveheart-type kid" instead of the 9 year old Anakin we got?

Here's the concept art I was talking about:



As you can see, this image show Anakin as 12..

Lucas' instincts were right on the money for this one; starting by portraying Anakin as a rebellious teenage might just have, come across as a whiny bitch to some people (cough...AotC cough cough), and doesn't really give the character as much room to go anywhere.

On the other hand, starting the story of Darth Vader with this talented, sweet, but emotionally scarred from early on by both the world he is born into and the monastic nature of the fucking retarded Jedi "rip-em-away-from-their-parents-and-don't-let-em-go-home-again...ever" little kid is unexpected storytelling, and sets up, on an outline anyways, an epically heartbreaking fall for Anakin.

Lucas just wasted so much storytelling time, particularly in AotC (which, taken on its own, I actually enjoy) that he wasn't able to really get that to pay off.

Yep, when viewed as a saga, AOTC didn't really fit in because you had Obi-Wan playing intergalactic detective oh about 70 percent of the movie. The other percentage of the movie? Clone Wars.

If Lucas had the start of the Clone Wars as the main focus of the story instead of a "cop" story, AOTC would have gone over much better.

Alright, I think we are good for a final title for this replacement topic for a thread which was lost during the great server farm disaster of Winter 2015. The topic being Disney using their own treatment instead of the original Lucas treatment.

Lucas stated during April's Tribeca festival "They’re [Disney] are doing a different story, I don’t even know anything about it.” “I hope it’s successful. They didn’t use my stories and they’ve taken it in a different direction".

It's possible that Kennedy, Kasden, Abrams, and even Disney CEO Bob Iger could have decided only to focus on "the father and the children" aspect of Lucas' treatment. (Where the "father and the children" are Solo and the children, Ren and Rey.)

Regarding the Prequels, specifically Episodes I & II; The Phantom Menace teaser sold Mace and Maul while the film delivered a little too much Gungan and Battledroid. The nine-year old Jake Lloyd only performed the lines and scenes provided by director and writer. Some were expecting the boy from The Shining and instead got the boy from Home Alone.

For me, Attack Of The Clones fleshed out Prequel-era everyday life and times. However, major points were taken away for Skywalker and Kenobi's hairstyles - 80's era spike with rattail and mullet respectively.

While Revenge Of The Sith retroactively redeeming the previous installments.

I saw this post late last night but decided to hold off til today so I could better articulate my thoughts.

DP, regarding the Lucas Treatments - The "Father, children, and grandchildren" comments could be referring to:

Father - Anakin Skywalker

Children - Luke and Leia

Grandchildren - Luke's or Leia's children?

I mean, the saga was pretty much about the Skywalkers going around the galaxy fucking up shit for what, 60-80 years from the demise of the Old Republic to the New Republic in the old continuity.

Re: The Prequels... I agree about TPM... People thought Jake Lloyd would be this scary kid, but remember this is the same kid who didn't know anything about acting 101 (he was a kid) and he was just coming off "Jingle All the Way. " If people thought he could be a good actor, they should watch "Jingle" and that's not even close to how serious the Shining was.

Agreed on the 80's hairstyles, but one can argue that it can be ignored if Episode II had focused more on the Clone Wars and less riff on American Grafitti. I'm not saying we don't need to see how people lived in the prequels, just that more emphasis on the Clone Wars would have been sufficient.

ROTS nailed down on what was supposed to happen to Anakin/Vader. My main complaint is how Anakin was burnt alive.

I'd love to someday compare the Lucas treatments to what eventually gets released for the hell of it.

All of the films original treatments, were different from what ended up on screen. A New Hope, Empire, Jedi and even Phantom Menace had undergone several revisions and what we saw, was very different from what Lucas had written in the first place.


Back in 1999, The Star Wars Episode I Insiders Guide was released and gave fans a look at the saga, up to that point.

The Phantom Menace content was surprising as it contained a far more precocious and perhaps even philosophical Anakin Skywalker, than what ended up on screen. The role of Qui Gon Jinn, was originally Obi-Wan's and I am sure there are more differences/changes/omissions, I am too lazy/time constrained to dig my copy out and go through it all.


Bottom line: changes to story ideas, are to be expected and in some cases, most needed.

And George could have a lot of interesting ideas for the new films, but I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in them had Lucasfilm continued with its previous structure. Lucas could have announced he was doing an adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy, but I'd still have doubts if he was still in charge of the screenplay, directing and every other aspect of production.

This.

And this.

Seems like it's just shitty journalism...

Yes, was going to post this...

Here's what that link said:





Sounds like Lucas learned a lot from his mistakes on TPM.

DP, also it points out that the Saga is in fact about the Skywalkers.

Is there a full version of the Tribeca interview anywhere online? I found a shaky cam with audio but that's it.

I don't really care about the he-said, she-said of what was adapted from the treatments and what wasn't.

Here's what I know to be true: What George Lucas says about Star Wars publicly is deceptive at best and lies at worst. It's just meaningless words to me.

My guess is that the general narrative arc of the ST will be adapted from George's notes, and we've already seen that the themes of "moral ambiguity" and the the blurred lines between good and evil are going to play a big role.

I'm sure we'll get a JW Rinzler "Making Of" book some day that tells us the real differences between the original treatments, the Michael Arndt stuff and what we ended up seeing in TFA.

CoGro,

How is Lucas a liar exactly? Shit change in development. Prior to 80, Lucas wasn't set on making Darth Vader the father of the Skywalker Twins, and it ended up making Empire one of the strongest SW films. If he didn't get help on writing ANH, you'd have seen TPM unfold on the big screen in 1977. (Han Solo as a Froglike Alien, anyone?) Just like Lucas didn't decide on Leia being Luke's sister. How can you justify yourself saying he's full of lies if you know story changes during production? That's like saying Joss Wheldon is a liar because he had a slightly different story treatment in mind (with Disney wanting Spider-Man in Age of Ultron) when story changes on the fly?

As per the making of books...Good luck waiting 30 years for the TFA book. We had to wait 30 years for them to release a trio of book that extensive on the process of making the OT. We haven't even gotten a trio of books based on the PT. Knowing LFL, it'll probably be 20 years before we even see one done about TPM.

I would agree that Lucas acts and speaks eccentrically, especially when it comes to promoting projects or re-releasing the Saga Six-pack whenever a new media format is adopted.

Regarding the Lucas Father, Children, Grandchildren treatment - Lucas has been consistent about saying the Skywalker story is complete (over). Focusing on the Solo legacy is one way around that dictate. (Just like having someone else produce the Sequel Trilogy is way around the Lucas pledge not produce anymore Star Wars installments after the Prequel Trilogy.)

It is also possible that both Lucas and Disney are both correct: Lucas' statement Disney is not using his Grandfather, Children, Grandchildren treatment while Disney is correct they are using his treatment only focusing on the Grandfather and Child(ren) portion.

Everything suggests to me that the Star Wars VII will be like Indiana Jones IV - Old Ford (bad ass old like Kenobi), reuniting with ex-wife and perhaps the discovering unknown children.

Also yes: release the Lucas treatment, Ardnt draft, along with original Kennedy-Kasdan concepts.

So, you think he's well, kinda of crazy? Remember he's not the type that would direct big budget movies. He'd rather direct American Grafitti 3 than to make a big studio movie. Not only that, remember SW did drive him crazy. He admits it in some interviews in which he states he was well, OCD enough about keeping SW straight enough to lose a marriage over it. It was only after SW was over (after 2005) that he regained some semblence of sanity and gained a new wife and child. Do you think he would have been able to balance a new wife and a baby during the making of PT? I don't see that as crazy. I can see how SW can be taxing on Lucas from a production standpoint. If you were asked to direct a trilogy of sci-fi movies with literally no break in between movies, you'd feel exactly what Lucas went through. I'd go so far to say that this kind of thing can and will destroy your family if you overwork yourself.

And the Solo Child(ren) in TFA would STILL carry the Skywalker lineage considering how they can come from Leia who is a Skywalker herself (presumably) married/split from Han. So in a way, the whole "Grandfather, Father/mother, Grandchildren" concept is still alive. There's even rumors that claim Luke supposedly fathered at least one son prior to TFA.

I understand it that way that they are still using the treatment of Lucas but changed some things up fit it with their plans of the Saga. Kennedy says in the article: “We’ve made some departures” from Lucas’s ideas, but only in “exactly the way you would in any development process.”. So this does not sound like throwing away all of his ideas. I guess the age of the "grandchilden" isnt even touched, if it was about them in their early twenties.

I wouldnt even see a problem with the ST featuring Teens, ages 12-16. Why would it botter ANY SW fan? Jacen, Jaina, Anakin Solo all where followed during their teen years and are beloved characters.

Concerning Ep I and Anakin age: I can relate much more to an Anakin who I can follow from childhood to adulthood as I could to a Anakin I learn to know as a teen. Seeing his origin and how he was when he was child adds so much more emotional impact to his fate. My 2 cents.

The article obviously is about bad journalism to feet the PT Hater Trolls. Annoys the hell out of me.

I guess when kids saw 19 yo Luke, it made the movie a total flop.

Oh, wait...

I agree regarding the Lucas treatments; I have no problem with the age of the kids here in the Sequels.

Regarding TPM: I agree. If you really want to understand why Darth Vader was such a bad guy, you have to go back to his beginnings and that's his childhood. It would have been hard to take his descent into the proverbial "personal hell" seriously if TPM started off with a 19 year old Anakin doing Jedi stuff and go through the exact same motions as a 9 year old Anakin Skywalker. My main quibble with the film was that he was cast wrong and that he wasn't 12 as Lucas originally envisioned.

Edit: Forgot to comment on the bad journalism part. I agree it's bad journalism, but the fact that this came from a reputable source such as Vanity Fair is going to hurt them in the long run. If I wanted to read bad articles, I'd have gone to

Honestly, I never really cared for Anakin’s arc across the prequels and I think it all goes goes back to trying too hard to make everything bigger and more epic.

The original trilogy lays out a pretty basic framework where Anakin is a good man whose ambition consumes him and leads to his destruction. It doesn’t aspire to the same level of complexity as what they tried to pull off in the PT, but it's strong enough to tell a good story.

Instead, Anakin is a magical miracle child born into slavery and prophesied to be the Space Messiah, who spends his adolescence dealing with both separation anxiety and forbidden love with the queen of an entire planet. I mean, that’s a lot for an audience to take in - and a lot to ask from George as a writer/director and the actors involved.

I hope with the sequel trilogy, there's more of a focus on actually developing characters -- fewer scenes of lengthy dialog trying to tell us to care, more scenes of getting to see our heroes grow as people and relate to each other.

The Anakin Skywalker concept art was based on Jonathan Brandis. By the time they got around to actually making The Phantom Menace he was obviously way to old to play Anakin, he was 21 at the time of filming, but he was auditioned for Attack Of The Clones since he was at least one of the original choices for Anakin but ultimately didn't get the part, probably because he was slightly too old since was 24 when Attack Of The Clones started filming in 2000. (Which is a shame as I think he would have made a great Anakin.) Then in 2003 he sadly committed suicide. Being rejected for Star Wars could have had a minor part in that but of course I wouldn't blame it entirely on that, just obviously that being rejected for what might have been one of his dream jobs (I'm sure he must have had discussions before, remember that Steven Spielberg created the SeaQuest DSV TV show, which he had a big role in and his character's name was even Lucas!) must have added to his depression since his friends said he was depressed about his career and started drinking heavily and said he would kill himself before he ultimately did.


Jonathan Brandis at 12 or 13. (Stepfather 2.)


Jonathan Brandis at 17 (SeaQuest DSV publicity shot.)


Jonathan Brandis at 24.


Check out this raw footage from the last ever episode of SeaQuest 2032 (sequel show to SeaQuest DSV), they keep repeating takes so you can skip through to 8:30 and 10:10 after watching a bit of it to watch a new scene. Also at the end they give a short message to the crew about being cancelled.




Now watch the last scenes he ever filmed, when he was 27, from a pilot of a show called 111 Gramercy Park which never got picked up. (Possibly due to his death?) It's funny that in the show he has a baby son called Luke and a sister called Leia who at one point he says "Careful sis, you've gotta remember you're not a Jedi yet." to, lol!




I really wish Jonathan Brandis had been cast as Anakin, it could have literally saved his life.

Corellianrogue: Very interesting anecdote about Brandis; I agree he would have been a great Anakin...Better than Hayden, but I'm sure Lucas would have drew from a large pool of actors. I'm sure he could have picked anyone that's better than Hayden, but alas, no. Thanks again for your post!