I don't know if you guys saw it but the novelization of Spider-man 3 has been made available in some markets and will be widespread soon. It is on Superhero Hype's forums, if you want to go deeper.

Anyway I won't go into detail but if you're really amped about Venom's inclusion in the film you might not like where the story winds up.

So tell us what it is!! This is the MOVIE SPOILERS SECTION afterall!

well, it seems to be legit. The guy posted actual scans of the novel pages and...SPOILERS

[spoil]scanned the final battle between Spider-Man/Harry and Venom/Sandman. If everything he is saying is true, and the novelization stays close to the movie, I am very excited to see this.

A lot of people have been disappointed by the Raimi Spider-Man series, but I am not one of them. I love these characters. I love that Peter Parker is the most abused character. Everything bad keeps happening to him. But in this novelization, he also dishes out a lot of pain. To Harry, MJ and Sandman. I love that Eddie Brock is a bastard from the get go. He is the complete opposite to Peter Parker. Always thinking of himself and what he hasn't got. The kinds of feelings that Peter was feeling in SM2 when his powers started to fail him. "What about what I want, what I need?" That in all honesty, is what Eddie Brock is made from in this book.

And I have never felt more love for the character of Harry Osborn. For the first half of the book, it is only about doing what his father's spirit (in Harry's mind anyway) wanted. But from then on it goes from feeling sorry for himself, to exacting a different kind of revenge, to finally finding it within himself to overcome his demons and to become heroic in his own way. I think more than any other character over the trilogy, Harry Osborn has grown the most. Even more than Peter Parker.

Well, anyway, the novelization sounds great and I might just have to pick it up. Can't wait for midnight, May 4th. [/spoil]

If the novelization is correct, I am officially even more excited.

[spoil]Ok, well, during the big fight at the end, Spider-man clangs some metal together (after he realizes that sound affects the symbiote) and the symbiote leaves Eddie's body, taking everything but the skeleton with him. The symbiote then forms into a Venom-mass of its own.

Then via some more noise created by Spider-man, that Venom-mass like, evaporates and sizzles away.

In short: I will burn down the theater.[/spoil]

This is how we roll... post the spoilers and the files.

Tempest19's Spider-Man III Detailed Summary.doc (Includes pages from the movies "Battle Royale") @ rapidshare.com

Tempest19's Spidey Novelization Thread @ Superherohype.com:

[spoil][web]http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268146[/web][/spoil]

Novel transcription of Venom meeting Peter Parker and Mary Jane by Airwolf from Superherohype.com:

[spoil]
[align=left]
The black goo that constituted its mask receded, revealing the face of the man who'd been driving the cab. His burning eyes stared down at them Beyond that he had taken her captive, Mary Jane had no clue who he was, but from Spider-Man's reaction she knew that Peter recongnized him immediately.'

Eddie: "Hiya pal, remember me?"

"Oh my God," gasped Spider-Man. "Eddie Brock..."

"No. Not Eddie. Not anymore. Im poison to you now Spider-Man," he said, flicking his tongue around. "Im...Venom. And I just want to you to know, I took your advice. You told me if I wanted forgiveness, I should find religion, so I went to church last night and asked for it. I asked for everything that had been taken away from me. Damned if I didn't get it. And more. I was handed the power I never dreamed of, Pete. It just... poured down on me as if from heaven itself."
[/align]
[/spoil]

Novel transcription of Venom's fate by Airwolf from Superherohype.com:

[spoil]
Okay, I'll just write down exactly what the book says of the final scene with Venom/Symbiote:

[align=left]Venom had in the meantime recovered. He raised the jagged pike and charged yet again. There was only split second- Spider-Man kicked up into his hands a lenght of rebar at his feet and, in one fluid motion, struck it against the girder. This time, with Peter's full muscle behind it, it generated a clang so sonorous that Peter could feel the fillings in his teeth vibrating in response. Because the rebar itself was generating the sound, the symbiote would be vulnerable to it...at least in theory.

He lowered the rebar to meet the oncoming Venom, and Venom- staggering from the ringing- was unable to control his forward motion. He impaled himself upon the makeshift tuning fork that Spider-Man had fashioned and gasped in surprise. The deadly pike dropped from Venom's hands.

Peter had taken care not to make the wound mortal. Eddie Brock would be in a world of hurt for a long time, but it wasn't meant to be fatal by any means.With any luck, though, it would be fatal for the symbiote because of the tonality.

Peter's eyes widened in shock. What ever the symbiote had done to him, it didn't compare to with what it had done to Brock.

It slithered off him, in response to the sound assault...but it left nothing behind.

All that remained of Eddie Brock was a smoking skeleton, and Spider-Man couldn't help but wonder in horror if Brock had even been present at all. It might well have been the alien creature all along, talking and acting the way it believed Eddie Brock was supposed to.

The gelatinous black goo reared up, forming a hideous face with gleaming fangs and serpentlike tongue.

It had absorbed the materials of Eddie's form and fashioned it into its own rudimentary body. An arm or tentacle of some sort of appendage emerged from its amorphous structure as it snarled, "Never wound what you can't kill."


*Skipping to the part of how symbiote actually dies*


A virtual hailstorm of eighty ringing rods pierced the creature in rapid succession, the sonic vibrations ripping it apart, bit by bit.

The symbiote sizzled, evaporated, and Peter was sure he heard the creature screaming in protest as the last of the black goo burned off into an inky smoke.[/align][/spoil]

So basically, is the summary posted on the second page of this thread legit?

Maybe it is just me, but it seems that we come to expect too much of movies these days, especially when they are based off other mediums that we hold dear. Take Spider-Man for example, the hardcore fans are looking for a shot for shot representation of the source material. They don't care for artistic license or what the director thinks of the character. They want Peter Parker, exactly the way he was drawn on the page, exactly the way it all played out. Why does Mary Jane come first? Where is Gwen Stacy? She is suppose to be thrown off the Brooklyn Bridge and killed! Why does Spider-Man not make smartass comments enough?? Eddie Brock is suppose to be huge!

The fact is, you are still watching a movie. Not a comic book. And you are watching something made by a whole crew of people. It isn't just a writer and artist. It is a story writer(s) and screenwriter(s) and producer(s) and director and countless other people idea of how to make a good Hollywood movie out of the material. And those people are in movies to A) make money and B) use their talent as artists. And you can't be an artist by just taking what somebody else has done page for page and putting it onscreen. Anyone could do that. And I hate to break it to the hardcore comic fans out there, but movie studios do not make these movies for only the hardcore comice fans. They make it for the biggest audiences they can. Why? Because Hollywood is a business like any other. Everyone has to make money to keep in business. They want a movie that will bring in anybody from any age group or walk of life.

I haven't seen one movie that absolutely followed the source material page for page except for possibly anything from Frank Miller. And even in the movie 300 the Spartans dicks aren't hanging out half the time like they did in the graphic novel. But no one complains about that. For good reason.

The fact is, you can't please everybody. And you can't please the fan boys unless you give them the exact same experience they get reading the comic book for the first time. I think Sam Raimi and Alvin Sargeant and Tobey and Kirsten have done about the best they can as artists. No it might not be exactly what you grew up reading about Spider-man, but if you had opened up to the fact that this is just a certain persons perspective on the character, maybe you could have seen it for what it is: Entertainment.

^ Well said.

Honestly too for those who say that Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 suck.... if they sucked so much then how did they make the vast ammounts of money that they did especially by breaking box office records?

Because people liked them, people kept going to see them. Like Obi-Wan said, you will never be able to please everyone.

The Spider-Man movies have their fans, no doubt. They make money. No shit.

But does that mean they're good? That's left up to the viewer, really. I happen to dislike the movies because Raimi turned Peter Parker/Spider-Man into a jackass boob that's continually subjected to horrendous dialogue, injuries and general embarrassment for comic relief. Sorry, I like my super heroes with their dignity intact. There's actually a scene in Spider-Man 2 where Octavius tells Parker that reading a girl poetry is the key to winning her heart. Cut to a scene of Peter at the laundromat, having checked out a bunch of books on poetry from the library, reading poetry to himself in hopes of wooing MJ (he actually reads it to her like a total boob during a later scene). There's also a scene where he jumps across a building for no apparent reason but to fall into the building and land on a car. What. The. Fuck?

I saw the sequel for hope it would finally do the character justice and I just felt embarrassed to be watching it. I'll see the third for the same reason, but I doubt it'll happen. If you like them, that's cool. But I think they're sort of shit.

I thought I was the only person who felt this.

Spider-man 2 to me felt like a parody of a Superhero movie. Between watching Peter strip through his apartment window to some shitty top 40 song and watching a montage of him looking like a douchebag to "Raindrops keep falling on my head" I saw everything I loved about Spider-man destroyed before my eyes.

Spider-man isn't cool in the movies, he's a prop for action. Peter Parker isn't the average kid I identified with, he's the loser I want to punch in the face and mock endlessly.

And these weren't isolated scenes in the film:

Peter Parker mop gag at the start of the film (a waste of 30 seconds of screen time and my life)
Spider-man in elevator (Raimi looking for a cheap laugh that ends up embarassing me)
Slow-mo Peter running on rooftop then falling to the ground - "My back!" (Not funny. Poor directing, writing. Bad and irrelevant scene, not to mention the terribly looped music)
Peter speaking to a doctor about his 'friend' who has drams of being Spider-man. (Even as an 11 year old kid I'd think this was lame because it is lame).
Peter Parker having chocolate cake FOR NO FUCKING REASON with the ugly anorexic daughter of his Russian rent collector. (WHY?! HOW THE FUCK DO PEOPLE LIKE THIS MOVIE?!!)

I think I've made my point and to be honest, I could care less whether people like or don't like the movies....but on a certain level art is either good or not good. There's Godfather and there's Catwoman. There's good adaptations and there's bad adaptations. Short of JJJ being written and cast perfectly and the origin scenes from the first film, Spider-man has been a swing and a miss. I've watched the TV series, I own over 300 comics from the golden age of Spider-man and to me, a fan of the character and the world he inhabits, the movies are disappointing. The 90s cartoon had to adapt...it changed canon and origins of characters...but it kept the integrity of the superhero and the characters that populate his world.

The symbiote saga and the character of Venom is my favourite Spider-man storyline. This is the only reason I eagerly anticipate this film. Killing Venom is reasonable since they aren't making a fourth with this cast, but if you're going to do that do Eddie/Venom justice. Don't make him a prop for action (which seems to be the case). Give him depth. Let him haunt Peter for 30 minutes in his human form. Show me what was brilliantly written in the comics. Make me sympathize with Peter, feel his stress and fear as he knows Eddie Brock has the ability to destroy his life, knowing all his secrets. This movie does not do that. It's another of the many failures that have marked Raimi's Spider-man venture.

How exactly has it been a failure? These movies may very well have CREATED more Spider-man fans than the Comic Books ever could. Like it or not there are people who would NEVER READ a comic book, ever. These movies have brought your beloved character to the masses.

So you don't like the plot, well you are in the extreme minority, if box office is a measure. Because if it sucked word of mouth would have killed it after the first week.

I'm not saying you don't have a right to bitch. Of course you do. But until you make your own Spider-man film I'd suggest you show Raimi a little bit of respect.

Speaking of the comicbook, Amazing Spider-Man #539 was released today, featuring the return of the black costume. Issue #539 is the first part of a five-part story-arc entitled Back In Black.

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1. It's been a failure in the sense of its adaptation of the spider-man mythos. If you want to argue that, pick up a couple issues and check the story out....then maybe I'll entertain this argument with you.

2. What does other people liking the movie do for me? Absolutely fucking nothing. All I want is a movie I like, so I could care less if the movie grossed 100 billion dollars. People liking it isn't my problem, it's how much I like it....and since when does Box Office dictate how good a movie actually is? By your logic Phantom Menace was the best of the prequels, one of the best movies of all time along with the recent disappointment of Pirates 2.

3. I don't consider myself in the extreme minority of people who didn't like the plot of either film....I think if you take out the cock-gobblers that will praise the ground of the filmmaker/franchise they love you get a general public that don't care or know enough about the Spider-man story to bitch about character and story changes....I don't give a shit about those people, taking me back to point 1. The fans that tend to think for themselves have their gripes with the Spider-man films; it doesn't mean they'll fucking boycott the movie or not be entertained by their better moments, but to say "I didn't have a problem with the plot, so you're in the extreme minority" makes you sound stupid. Don't play ball that way.

4. Your last point makes you sound retarded. You should probably edit your post and delete it.

Bitch bitch bitch, moan moan moan... geezsus fucking christ grow up children....

Sure, because every comic book movie must follow your vision of what it should be, or else!

I really liked the first two films and was beyond excited for the third one until I read that novelization.

It became incredibly obvious that they only shoved Venom into this story to give it buzz that they didn't expect Sandman/Harry could deliver.

In doing so, Venom/Brock didn't get a fair shake and the story seems kind of haphazardly intertwined -- I'm not very disappointed.

I hate to burst your bubble but you should never really go by the novelization of how a film is going to be. The film can be quite different from the novel.

Well I hope that there are some differences because of what happens to Venom and Harry closes the book on those characters.

There now appears to be a pattern with Raimi's portayal of Spider-Man villians.

At the end of Spider-Man II, Dr Octopus is like "Hey I'm just fuckin with ya" and dentonates that bomb or whatever it was in the river.

From the novel and trailers we know that in Spider-Man III the "New Goblin" Harry Osborn ends up helping Spider-Man against his fight with the Sandman. "Remember when you killed my dad Norman and I came at ya as the New Goblin - Hey I was just fuckin with ya".

Enter the Sandman, who is retconned into "accidently" killing Uncle Ben and ends up helping Spider-Man fight against Venom in the end. "You know when I killed yo Uncle Ben - Hay just fuckin with ya"

All of that on top of the black costume no where near looking like the black costume.

After seeing the storm brewing in this thread I decided wtf, I broke out both SM1 and SM2 dvd's since I haven't watched them in a while. My opinion hasn't changed. These films, while accurately portraying the character in costume (dialolgue aside) and having some decent action sequences, utterly fall flat on thier faces otherwise.

I'd make a list of every part that bugged the shit out of me, but it would be so long no one would read it. Short list: casting, dialogue, plot changes.

I like that the people working on the technical parts of these films did such a great job, though. Much like the abortion that was the last Hulk movie, I like seeing the character on-screen doing their thing, but the rest of it drags on. They seem to be trying so hard to appeal to everyone, especially non-fans, that they loose sight of what made these stories worth repeating to begin with.

But if you guys like them, great. I don't think anyones going to think less of you for it. But trying to hold these movies up as "great cinema" is kind of a stretch. The box office numbers are a count of the people that fell for the hype. And that goes for good films as well. A lot of great movies get no publicity and don't make as much money. It's not an accurate indicator of quality or appeal.

All that said, this one looks better. And I can't help but wonder if Topher Grace would have made a better Peter Parker this whole time. At least he might've been able to pull of the wise cracking schtik while not looking mildly high/retarded.

The Raimi movies were good given the eccentric Lucas-style liberties taken with the characters i.e. organic webshooters etc. However the movies aren't the type I would watch over and over. Seen them once in the theater and then bought the DVDs which were played once more.

Although I flirted with doing a Original Trilogy style fan edit of the DVDs removing all instances of Aunt "MY EYES!" May. There was that one scene in II where she and Peter had like this hour long conversation.

Given the $250 million budget and the three year time period it took to produce plus the fate of Venom and Harry, it looks like this will be Raimi's last. The only thing that has me concerned is how Venom comes ie of look and character. The RAH Medicom action figga's look has grown on me immensely. The novel's dialogue from Peter and Venom's first meeting came off as pretty awesome even though it was paraphrased from the 1990s animated series.

Anyway, the movie is supposed to be world premiered in Japan on April 15th/16th so it's possible a telesync or cam(eraphone) happens soon.

I'll put my name in there as someone who was disappointed. I'm not a big comic book fan, don't know a huge amount about the backstories. I'm one of the sci-fi/action/whatever non-comic book fans the movie was trying to reach.

I found the first movie kinda...boring. It was watchable. Some parts were good. I couldn't really get into the characters though. Never got the hype and the acclaim some people laid on it - possibly great when compared to other superhero movies that have been released recently, but not great in and of itself.

Spiderman 2, however. That was a cringeworthy piece of shit. There was nothing right about it, not Spidermans identity being revealed to friends, enemies and strangers. Not the Raindrops montage. Not the doctors scene. It was just embarassing.

This movie...I don't know. Throwing multiple villians out there just makes me think of the shit-awful Batman movies of the 90s and, of course, the old Batman from the 70's. Shouldn't be too hard to work on the simple plot of Good Guy vs Bad Guy that has made movies go round for a century. The more bad guys you throw at the good guy, the less believable the final resolution becomes.

Nothing pleases you people. If a SM movie was never made you'd still be bitching!

"I said, err, Spider-Man said, he asked me what I thought of you. I said the thing about MJ is, when you look into her eyes and you realize you're clearly revealing to her that you are in fact Spider-Man..."

"I've been having these dreams where I'm Spider-Man and I'm losing my powers. Actually, it's not even my dream, it's my friend's dream. Err-- Alright, I'm Spider-Man, doc."

Hopefully, Sony reboots the franchise in 5-10 years like Warner did with Batman.

Except SM1 and SM2 are nowhere near as bad as Batman and Robin, a movie which necessitated the reboot.

Don't let your fan boy hate of the SM movies blind you. These movies are generally well accepted and well liked.

I love to stir up the controversy!

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's view point and everybody has good points. I can't say that I dislike either movie. I liked Spider-Man when it came out and I liked SM2 even more. Yes, I know that Peter Parker is a bit of a dork and can sometimes be mildly retarded. But I believe that Raimi was geniunely just trying to make him seem like the farthest thing from a superhero. The story of a nobody becoming a somebody.

I also believe that Raimi likes the character of Peter Parker as an everyday guy more than the character of Peter Parker the superhero. Maybe that is why a lot of people dislike the first two movies. It is more of a personal drama in the scenes with Parker and Aunt May and Peter and MJ. It isn't all about Peter Parker being Spiderman. It is about Peter Parker being Peter Parker. It is about trying to hold on to everything you care about in your normal life despite having to spend half your time being a superhero.

I don't know. Maybe the films would have been better off spending twice as much time as Spiderman in costume, cracking wise, action wall to wall. Maybe if they would have rethought the Green Goblin outfit in the first movie or just make Otto Octavius some crazy foreign scientist instead of the man in love with his wife and his work. I don't have an answer for what could have made these movies better for the individuals who dislike them. The only thing I know is that they work for me, and for a lot of people. I know that saying "it made a lot of money" isn't a really good argument for any film being good. But if you can make sequels that make $250-400 million dollars domestically, I think you've done something that at least is popular with the masses. It will be interesting to see where SM3 comes in with total domestic box office take. If it stays on par with the previous films then Raimi must have done something right. But if it falls off the way Matrix Revolutions or Batman and Robin did, then we'll know where these movies really stand with the fans.

I want to make one thing clear though. Anyone who tries to throw these movies in with Batman and Robin in terms of entertainment is definitely against cinema in general. Nothing Raimi could do to this franchise is anywhere near what Schumacher did to Batman.

The reboot of the Batman film franchise first occurred after Batman Returns. The Spider-Man movies aren't comparable to Batman & Robin, but rather Tim Burton's Batman films. At the time of their release, those films were a huge success and people loved them. There were changes to the Batman mythology however, similar to what Raimi did with Spider-Man. This pissed off a lot of fans of the comics, but the movies still grossed a ton of money and were generally well-accepted, like the Spider-Man movies. The franchise has gone all over the place since then, with Schumacher's films and the new Begins series. They've all been successful aside from B&R and they all have their fans. I believe without a doubt a reboot will occur with Spider-Man as soon as Raimi and the cast want out. There's far too much money in the series for Sony to let it end.

From what I'm hearing, that may happen after this one. Fingers crossed, I guess.

But see that is a problem as well. Sony has made a TON of money off the Raimi Spider-Man trilogy (I'm going on predictions that SM3 will rake in another $400 million) and I don't think they are looking for a reboot. I could see them handing this off to another director and saying "continue the story" based on what Raimi has already done. But to pull away from that and start new in the next 5 years doesn't sound like much of a possibility at this point. That is the difference between this and the Batman franchise. I don't think that you will see the massive hate toward these films in the next few years that you get from the later Batman movies (Forever and B/R). Warner Bros. needed to get the bad taste from the Schumacher movies out of the way by starting at square one.

Let's look at this from a money standpoint. Here are some rough figures of Worldwide Grosses across the Batman and Spider-Man movies.

Batman $411,000,000
B Returns $266,000,000
B Forever $336,000,000
B Robin $238,000,000
B Begins $371,000,000

Spider-Man $821,000,000
Spider-Man 2 $783,000,000
Spider-Man 3 $?

Now I predict that SM3 will make another $500 million+ worldwide. Do you think Warner Brothers wouldn't want to be making the Raimi Spider-man films instead? Almost the same amount of money brought in by the 2 Spider-Man movies as the 5 Batman films, plus the cost to make isn't even close. Now this is nothing against Batman Begins. Could be the best superhero movie ever made. But in terms of what people are going to see over and over, I would say that Spider-man wins out.

And that is where the box office comes into play. Studios could care less if the movie is actually good or not. But if it makes a mint and you can create sequels that people will go see again and again, then they have been very successful. Now what will be interesting is how The Dark Knight does. I don't believe people(normal movie goers, not comic fans) were ready for another Batman movie (Batman Begins) that soon after the putrid B&R. So possibly the box office is a little skewed because as many people didn't see Begins in theaters. Only time will tell.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I consider the transition between Batman Returns and Forever to be as much of a reboot as Begins was. The characters, music, aesthetics and the general tone of the films was completely changed, though people for some reason consider it a sequel. I'm hopeful for Spider-Man getting a similar treatment, just not something gay like the Schumacher Batman movies were. With any luck, Sony will bring someone in post-Raimi to give us a better silver screen vision of comic book Spidey. Something that can be loosely connected with the earlier movies, but is more authentic.

I think that the transition from Returns to Forever is a little more fuzzy. Tim Burton was still involved (as a producer), Alfred and Gordon were played by the same actors, and the villains continued in order (Joker didn't return, nor Penguin or Catwoman). I believe the main differences between them are different Batman and the look of Gotham.

Batman Begins is absolutely a reboot because it is an origin story, same as Casino Royale.

New trailer came up today. Much of the same with some new shots and sequences thrown in.

http://www.spiderman3oncomcast.com/

SpiderMan3_Trailer3_March_HD-720p.mov
SpiderMan3_Trailer3_March_SD-480p.mov

Maybe it is just me, but during the quick cuts at the end of the trailer, maybe 3 or 4 cuts before the "3" appears at the end, there is a cut of Venom jumping and shooting black web. Maybe it is just a glare from lights below him, but it looks like you can see the white spider on his chest like Venom from the comics. Anyone else seeing this?

I can't be sure, but it looks more like the earlier leaked art as opposed to the awful black Sideshow figure.

It is Venom.

Looks great to me, except for the horrific Mary Jane dialogue, let's hope that was just a trailer line.

I'm really looking forward to this one, regardless.

Thanks E_CHU for the upclose captures. For the most part, it seems that the only thing missing for film Venom is the mass that Eddie brock had from the comics.

VENOM is at WAL-MART now !!!

I took these today at my local store. This should be the final image of Venom:

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Nice find man

the movie storybook is in stores now too.

[align=left][spoil] It looks like Harry gets the right side of his face disfigured from the pumpkin bomb we see explode in his face in the trailers. Spiderman goes to Harry's mansion to ask for his help to fight Sandman and Venom but Harry says he'll never join with Spiderman for what he did to his father. Peter leaves and later Harry's butler informs Harry that Peter didn't kill his father, it was his father's fault all along. Spidey then goes to the construction site to fight and that's when Harry joins him and saves the day. [/spoil][/align]

BOO!

Shit ya, Venom looks kick ass!

It looks like a lame kids halloween costume.

Then it fits perfectly the visual style of Spiderman movies.

As much as I like comic books, I think any comic book character's costume you bring to the big screen will look a bit like a halloween costume. Think if they brought Wolverine in with the yellow spandex. It would have been a joke.

Amy I the only person on here that likes the Spiderman movies?

BTW, thanks for the Venom pictures. I'm going to see this at our local iMax, so it should be awesome.

I like them, but then again I am not a bed wetting comic book recluse who obsesses over the stitches in SM's costume.

I like the Spider-Man movies as well. So you're not alone.

It does look awlful "campy". But what do you expect from the Evil Dead director. I guess we should be happy Venom looks as good as he does.

I absolutely love them. I watched 1 & 2 today. I like Spider-Man comics but I'm not a fanatic about it. I just wanted to see the character on the big screen with a pretty good story, and I got what I was looking for.